PEIinfo Logo
  Top Banner

Listings Coming Soon
 
Home
* FAQ
* Register

* Login 

Reset Password
Resend Activation Email

RSS Feed (New Posts)
RSS Feed (Replies)

Search
Lunch Specials

Lunch Saturday Steak Special at Fireman's Club for $5.75 [Remind Me]

Lunch Soup and Sandwich at Cedars Eatery for $7.95 [Remind Me]

Lunch Soup and Sandwich at St. James Gate for $9.95 [Remind Me]

Lunch Steak Special at Ch'town Curling Club for $10.00 [Remind Me]

Lunch Falafel at Cedars Eatery for $10.95 [Remind Me]

Supper Large House Chicken at Cedars Eatery for $17.95 [Remind Me]

Supper 8oz Sirloin at Cedars Eatery for $19.95 [Remind Me]

All Day Special steak & fries at outriders for $5.49 [Remind Me]

All Day Special 6 oz Ribeye Steak Sandwich at St. James Gate for $6.99 [Remind Me]

All Day Special Jaeuck(Pork & Rice) at Seoul Food Restaurant(Cafe) for $9.87 [Remind Me]

All Day Special Hot Hamburger at Brits Fish and Chips for $9.95 [Remind Me]

All Day Special Chicken bokkeum at Seoul Food Restaurant(Cafe) for $10.98 [Remind Me]

All Day Special Dolsot Bibimbap at Seoul Food Restaurant(Cafe) for $11.98 [Remind Me]

All Day Special GamJa-tang(Pork bone on the soup) at Seoul Food Restaurant(Cafe) for $12.89 [Remind Me]

Add your restaurant's special!
Follow @WhatsOnSpecial!
Island Weather [Customize]
Sponsor
Island Webcam [Customize]
Island Radio
  Listen to CBC 96.1 FM
Windows M. Player
Listen to Island Radio
Winamp
Listen to K-Rock
Windows M. Player
Listen to Ocean 100
Windows M. Player

All times are UTC - 4 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 9th, 2012, 4:20 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: November 26th, 2006, 12:15 am
Posts: 2628
Quote:

OTTAWA -- The federal government's tough-on-crime agenda is "excessively punitive" for youth and is a step backwards for Canada's child rights record, says a United Nations group.

The UN committee on the rights of the child has finished a 10-year review of how Canada treats its children and how well governments are implementing the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

In particular, the committee says Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act complied with international standards until changes were introduced earlier this year.

The Harper government's Bill C-10 -- an omnibus crime bill that includes stiffer penalties for youth and makes it easier to try them as adults -- no longer conforms to the child rights convention or other international standards.

Bill C-10 "is excessively punitive for children and not sufficiently restorative in nature," the committee wrote in a report published over the weekend.

"The committee also regrets there was no child rights assessment or mechanism to ensure that Bill C-10 complied with the provisions of the convention."

The committee also repeatedly expressed its concern that aboriginal and black children are dramatically overrepresented in the criminal justice system. Aboriginal youth are more likely to be jailed than graduate from high school, the report said.

In order to meet the standards of the UN convention, Ottawa should raise the minimum age of criminal responsibility and ensure that no one under 18 is ever tried as an adult, the report said.

Authorities should also be developing alternatives to detention, writing rules to restrain the use of force against children in detention and to separate girls from boys in jail, the committee added.

Governments should determine why so many aboriginal and black children and youth are involved in the criminal justice system and figure out how to reduce the disparity, the report recommended.

The committee also chastised Canada for failing to provide equal social services to aboriginal children -- especially in the realm of child welfare, an issue now before Canadian courts.

It accused authorities of "serious and widespread discrimination" in the services they offer aboriginal children, visible minorities, immigrants and children with disabilities.

"The UN joins the auditor general, leading experts and First Nations in calling on the federal government to step up to the plate and ensure equity for First Nations children," said advocate Cindy Blackstock of the First Nations Child and Family Caring Society.

"There is simply no excuse for a government to discriminate against children."

The child rights convention is a binding international treaty that Canada ratified in 1991. Signatories are obliged to defend their child rights' records and explain progress at regular intervals before a UN committee.

Canadian officials appeared before the committee two weeks ago.

They did not respond to requests for comment about the final report on Tuesday, partly because it was unclear who in government is responsible.

But previously in the House of Commons, Conservative parliamentary secretary Bob Dechert lashed out at the UN committee because one of its members is from Syria.

"Syria, a country whose rulers are stealing the innocence of an entire generation of its children, is criticizing Canada," he said. "Imagine that.

"This is no doubt to distract from the atrocities that Syrian children are currently facing every day."

But critics say Ottawa is wrong to write off the UN committee -- even if Canada is not among the worst offenders.

"You can't sign on to a treaty like the Convention on the Rights of the Child without adhering to the guidelines that it lays out," said Jaskiran Dhillon, a representative for Justice for Girls.

"It sets an international bar for what treating and taking care of your children and youth looks like. It doesn't mean that you disregard the most marginalized ... populations of your country."

The report also wants Canada to:Adopt a national strategy to implement children's rights, alleviate poverty and prevent violence.
Address high levels of violence against aboriginal women and girls.
Ensure child victims of violence have access to restraining orders and other means of protection.
Help troubled parents take better care of their children instead of sending them into foster care.
Ensure disabled children are not forced into segregated schooling.
Monitor the use of drugs to treat mental conditions in children, to curtail over-medication.
Eliminate user fees in public schools.
Increase the availability of free or affordable daycare.
Rehabilitate Omar Khadr.
Stop detaining child refugee claimants.
Act to prevent obesity among children.


Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/un-calls-c ... z28ppocfPC

_________________
“Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking...” Leo Tolstoy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 9th, 2012, 6:20 pm 
Offline
From Away

Joined: October 2nd, 2012, 9:07 am
Posts: 54
Does anybody take anything U.N. agencies say seriously? And if so why, considering the constituent members are, by a large majority, dictators who path to power is littered with theft, rape and murder. Or inherited power from some such person.

I don't get it myself.

I don't know of one aspect of life any U.N. body is qualified to lecture Canada on. We have problems but nothing compared to the corruption of that unfortunate organization.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 9th, 2012, 6:28 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: April 12th, 2010, 7:29 am
Posts: 1842
The last thing that we (the people) need is yet another layer of big government telling us how to live.

UN - mind your own business. :x

Ed

_________________
Searching for truth with an open mind is more rewarding than belief, which by definition is unquestioning.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 9th, 2012, 7:03 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: September 28th, 2007, 12:45 pm
Posts: 984
The UN can be a circus at times, but suggesting that "the constituent members are, by a large majority, dictators who path to power is littered with theft, rape and murder. Or inherited power from some such person." is a pretty ludicrous statement.

How about actually addressing the critiques and suggestions made, instead of this type of ad hominem attack? Seems to me many of them echo the critiques presented by domestic critics.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 9th, 2012, 8:02 pm 
Offline
From Away

Joined: October 2nd, 2012, 9:07 am
Posts: 54
sentance wrote:
The UN can be a circus at times, but suggesting that "the constituent members are, by a large majority, dictators who path to power is littered with theft, rape and murder. Or inherited power from some such person." is a pretty ludicrous statement.

How about actually addressing the critiques and suggestions made, instead of this type of ad hominem attack? Seems to me many of them echo the critiques presented by domestic critics.


There are approximately 200 countries in the world. There are maybe 60 democracies - if you take a liberal definition of having multi party elections as the minimum qualification.

That leaves 140 countries ruled by other means. Any idea how they got to power? There is no doubt that many of them are a generation or two removed from the one that seized power initially but since there was no election just exactly how do you think they rose to power?

I don't think I make ludicrous statements.

As to commenting on the source as opposed to the substance it was a choice. The U.N. lacks the moral authority to comment on how Canada deals with crime. I actually think they lack just about any credibility whatsoever.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 10th, 2012, 7:43 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 4:33 pm
Posts: 1081
defmn wrote:
sentance wrote:
The UN can be a circus at times, but suggesting that "the constituent members are, by a large majority, dictators who path to power is littered with theft, rape and murder. Or inherited power from some such person." is a pretty ludicrous statement.

How about actually addressing the critiques and suggestions made, instead of this type of ad hominem attack? Seems to me many of them echo the critiques presented by domestic critics.


There are approximately 200 countries in the world. There are maybe 60 democracies - if you take a liberal definition of having multi party elections as the minimum qualification.

That leaves 140 countries ruled by other means. Any idea how they got to power? There is no doubt that many of them are a generation or two removed from the one that seized power initially but since there was no election just exactly how do you think they rose to power?

I don't think I make ludicrous statements.

As to commenting on the source as opposed to the substance it was a choice. The U.N. lacks the moral authority to comment on how Canada deals with crime. I actually think they lack just about any credibility whatsoever.


Let's just say for the sake of argument that your statements about the UN are true, it doesn't change the fact that they're right.

If Charles Manson tells you it's raining outside, no matter how horrible of a person he is it doesn't mean it's snowing.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 10th, 2012, 9:27 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: April 12th, 2010, 7:29 am
Posts: 1842
Manzig wrote:
Let's just say for the sake of argument that your statements about the UN are true, it doesn't change the fact that they're right.

That depends on one's view of the role of governments. These UN agencies are only 'right' from a socialist viewpoint. From a libertarian or paleo-conservative perspective they are totally wrong.

Setting aside those items on the list that identify criminality, which should, of course, be dealt with by the domestic police force having jurisdiction, all of these are blatant, not to mention very expensive, interference in our freedoms.

The report also wants Canada to:-

Help troubled parents take better care of their children instead of sending them into foster care.
Ensure disabled children are not forced into segregated schooling.
Monitor the use of drugs to treat mental conditions in children, to curtail over-medication.
Eliminate user fees in public schools.
Increase the availability of free or affordable daycare.
Rehabilitate Omar Khadr.
Stop detaining child refugee claimants.
Act to prevent obesity among children.


Ed

_________________
Searching for truth with an open mind is more rewarding than belief, which by definition is unquestioning.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 10th, 2012, 9:46 am 
Offline
From Away

Joined: October 2nd, 2012, 9:07 am
Posts: 54
Manzig wrote:
defmn wrote:
sentance wrote:
The UN can be a circus at times, but suggesting that "the constituent members are, by a large majority, dictators who path to power is littered with theft, rape and murder. Or inherited power from some such person." is a pretty ludicrous statement.

How about actually addressing the critiques and suggestions made, instead of this type of ad hominem attack? Seems to me many of them echo the critiques presented by domestic critics.


There are approximately 200 countries in the world. There are maybe 60 democracies - if you take a liberal definition of having multi party elections as the minimum qualification.

That leaves 140 countries ruled by other means. Any idea how they got to power? There is no doubt that many of them are a generation or two removed from the one that seized power initially but since there was no election just exactly how do you think they rose to power?

I don't think I make ludicrous statements.

As to commenting on the source as opposed to the substance it was a choice. The U.N. lacks the moral authority to comment on how Canada deals with crime. I actually think they lack just about any credibility whatsoever.


Let's just say for the sake of argument that your statements about the UN are true, it doesn't change the fact that they're right.

If Charles Manson tells you it's raining outside, no matter how horrible of a person he is it doesn't mean it's snowing.


I didn't say it was wrong. I made no comment on the findings one way or the other. I simply pointed out that the UN has long ago lost its moral authority to criticize individual nations. Particularly nations that have peaceful and scheduled opportunities for regime change.

As for the Manson comparison it would be more compelling if you had him commenting on a matter of law and order rather than the weather because although it is true than anybody can be right about anything it is equally true that past actions create a reputation or background for all of us.

I apologize for hijacking the thread to this extent but, imo, it cannot be stated too often or too emphatically that the U.N. has deteriorated to a point long past insignificance enroute to maliciousness. I see no particular reason to acknowledge any of their actions or decrees.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 10th, 2012, 10:32 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 4:33 pm
Posts: 1081
defmn wrote:

I didn't say it was wrong. I made no comment on the findings one way or the other. I simply pointed out that the UN has long ago lost its moral authority to criticize individual nations. Particularly nations that have peaceful and scheduled opportunities for regime change.

As for the Manson comparison it would be more compelling if you had him commenting on a matter of law and order rather than the weather because although it is true than anybody can be right about anything it is equally true that past actions create a reputation or background for all of us.

I apologize for hijacking the thread to this extent but, imo, it cannot be stated too often or too emphatically that the U.N. has deteriorated to a point long past insignificance enroute to maliciousness. I see no particular reason to acknowledge any of their actions or decrees.


I'm curious what the UN has done that you find so horrifying? I'm not saying that member nations don't have pockmarks on their records, every country does.

Also for this committee the people on the board act independently and are not speaking on behalf of their home nations, so what their countries have done doesn't colour their recommendations with biased policy.

The fact of the whole matter is that the Harper government has put in place laws that do nothing but put more people in jail in response to a crime rate that has been steadily dropping.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 10th, 2012, 1:22 pm 
Offline
From Away

Joined: October 2nd, 2012, 9:07 am
Posts: 54
Manzig wrote:
I'm curious what the UN has done that you find so horrifying? I'm not saying that member nations don't have pockmarks on their records, every country does.

Also for this committee the people on the board act independently and are not speaking on behalf of their home nations, so what their countries have done doesn't colour their recommendations with biased policy.

The fact of the whole matter is that the Harper government has put in place laws that do nothing but put more people in jail in response to a crime rate that has been steadily dropping.


Well the U.N. debate would just totally hijack this thread so I will simply observe that imo nothing that anybody does at the U.N. is done independently of their home nations. I find that idea fairly naive, actually.

As to your assertion regarding Harper's government has done nothing but put laws in place that will raise the number of people in jail I guess my first observation is that trying to raise the standard of conduct in society is rarely a smooth process. Holding people accountable for their actions when they have rarely, if ever, encountered such a concept is almost guaranteed to be met with resistance.

So you take a generation that has never been punished in school or, for that matter, even been told of the possibility of failing a grade and you can pretty much predict how standards will look 20 years later. Of course there have been steadily dropping crime rates. The police have been neutered by the law for more than a generation.

You seem focussed on whether or not more people will end up in jail but for me the question is whether or not they deserve to be in jail. There are all sorts of stupid laws in this country. Many that pre-date Harper. But what is truly dangerous for the rule of law is when you lack the will to enforce the laws you do have. I would say that pretty much sums up the attitude of the courts as it applies to juvenile crime for the last several decades and that it is preferable to punish law breakers over being able to boast about falling crime rates by simply ignoring crime as it happens.

jmo


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 10th, 2012, 1:50 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: September 20th, 2011, 8:18 pm
Posts: 3437
defmn wrote:
The police have been neutered by the law for more than a generation.




You have some evidence of this?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 10th, 2012, 3:04 pm 
Offline
From Away

Joined: October 2nd, 2012, 9:07 am
Posts: 54
Raiders wrote:
defmn wrote:
The police have been neutered by the law for more than a generation.




You have some evidence of this?


Well, I will start with an anecdote. My wife and I just built a house. It was an empty lot with trees that the local kids and teenagers had used forever to play on so they were a little upset when we started to build. Constant attempts to break in, minor petty theft and vandalism. Even after we moved in we had trouble ranging from eggs being thrown at the house to rocks and sticks etc. to my wife and I being physically threatened by teenagers continuing to use our property as a shortcut between streets.

I finally had enough and phoned the police. I was told in no uncertain terms that there was nothing they could or would do because under the terms of the 'restorative justice' policy in place they had been instructed not to lay charges against minors.

I, on the other hand, was given a ten minute lecture on the consequences that I would suffer at the hands of the law should I so much as raise my voice to any of the little hooligans.

Take it for what it is worth. I am in my 60's and retired. Not exactly prime years for engaging in physical confrontations.

I realize this is just an anecdote but I don't think it is a huge leap to note that as physical repercussions by teachers and principals were outlawed that the incidence of bullying in schools has become a national obsession.

There is always a bully in every group. Personally I would rather that person be the principle or the law courts or even the local cop rather than a teenager who has figured out that nobody will ever do anything about his behaviour.

And I don't think it takes much of a leap to realize that a lack of consequences for actions acts as a catalyst for certain temperaments. The longer bad behaviour goes unchecked the more severe the reaction needed in order to check it in my experience.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 10th, 2012, 3:15 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 4:33 pm
Posts: 1081
Your view that the current generation of young people are completely entitled and lawless is flawed, I know plenty of people from a wide range of ages, there are entitled assholes and pleasant hard working people of every age.

Throwing teenagers in jail for trying weed isn't really going to help society.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 10th, 2012, 4:07 pm 
Offline
From Away

Joined: October 2nd, 2012, 9:07 am
Posts: 54
Manzig wrote:
Your view that the current generation of young people are completely entitled and lawless is flawed, I know plenty of people from a wide range of ages, there are entitled assholes and pleasant hard working people of every age.

Throwing teenagers in jail for trying weed isn't really going to help society.


Throwing teenagers in jail for trying weed is something they did 30-50 years ago. I should know. I was there. If there is a teenager in jail today for possession of weed I haven't heard of it.

And I totally agree with you that there are entitled assholes and pleasant hard working people of every age. Not sure where you got the impression I didn't know that.

My comment was that the entitled assholes that are still teenagers do not fear punishment because they have not been subjected to it by law or experience and that the longer you delay making people realize there are consequences to their actions the harder it is to teach that lesson.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: UN calls Canada's tough-on-crime agenda 'excessively punitiv
PostPosted: October 11th, 2012, 9:42 am 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11428
Location: Summerside
I thought I read a court case in the paper very recently where someone was found guilty of egging someone's house?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group