I dunno, if I were Jack Layton I'd be kind of glad that this clown wasn't supporting me.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... ection2006

Martin, Buzz Hargrove team up to attack Tories
Updated Wed. Jan. 18 2006 10:37 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Liberal Leader Paul Martin has teamed up with Canadian Auto Workers head Buzz Hargrove once again, this time in a double-barrelled effort to stop Stephen Harper and his Conservatives from making anymore gains in Quebec.

In Strathroy, Ont. on Wednesday, near Ford Motor's Talbotville assembly plant, Hargrove accused Harper of holding separatist views.

Harper has suggested that he would give more power to the provinces as part of his mandate -- an approach Hargrove labelled as "separatist."

"If you devolve all the powers to the provinces, what do you have left?" asked Hargrove, campaigning alongside the Liberal Leader. "(Harper's) view of the country is a separatist view.''

A day after Harper made a strong appeal to voters in Quebec, where polls show the Conservatives have made surprising gains, Hargrove is putting pressure on Quebecers to choose the Bloc Quebecois over the Conservatives.

"I would urge them to stop Stephen Harper in any way they can," he said.

Harper struck back about an hour later during a campaign stop in Toronto, calling Hargrove's endorsement of a separatist party "shocking."

"Mr. Hargrove, who's one of Mr. Martin's key campaign supporters, is now urging people to vote for the Bloc -- and I wonder what Mr. Martin thinks of that," said Harper.

"I think Mr. Martin should distance himself from Mr. Hargrove's comments. I don't think any federalist leader should be urging people to vote for the Bloc."

Harper said backing the Bloc is bad for Canada, and "shows a partisanship that puts the interests of the Liberal party ahead of the interests of the country . . . and that's one of the reasons the Liberal party's in trouble with public opinion."

The head of the Canadian Auto Workers union raised eyebrows in early December when he decided to endorse the Liberals -- a switch from the traditional union support for the New Democrats.

Hargrove said wasn't satisfied with the way NDP Leader Jack Layton has run his campaign.

"Jack has made a couple of decisions in this campaign that didn't sit with me very well but he has a right to do that. He's the leader of the party," Hargrove said.

He said Layton has spent too much time criticizing Martin's government, "as if undermining Liberals was going to strengthen the NDP."

"I think that was a short-term view of the values of Canada."

Hargrove was with Martin in a southwestern Ontario restaurant as the Liberal leader wooed NDP votes.

With polls suggesting a Tory lead just days before Monday's election, Martin said it's time for progressive voters to unite to stop the Tories.

He said Harper's agenda is out of step with Canadian values.

Buzz Martin and Paul Hargrove deserve each other.

And now for the inevitable back pedallling

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Conten ... &t=TS_Home

Liberals scramble after Hargrove calls Harper separatist
Martin forced to issue statement praising Tory leader's patriotism
Jan. 18, 2006. 12:55 PM
CANADIAN PRESS

LONDON, Ont. — The Liberals are in full damage control this afternoon after a high-profile campaign endorsement by the head of Canada’s largest private-sector labour union turned disastrous.

Canadian Auto Workers president Buzz Hargrove used a campaign stop in nearby Strathroy to call Conservative Leader Stephen Harper a separatist whose Alberta-born political principles place him outside mainstream Canadian values.

He seemed to agree with questioners that Quebecers vote for the Bloc Quebecois over the Conservatives.

Prime Minister Paul Martin issued a retraction on Hargrove’s behalf as soon as the comments hit the news wires, and was forced to praise Harper’s patriotism in an effort to quell the controversy.

“I have large differences with Stephen Harper but I have never doubted his patriotism,” Martin said at a news conference in London.

As for Alberta, the prime minister said “the values that we hold in this country go from coast to coast.”

“The fact is, there are differences of opinion in this country. They don’t exist only in one province. They exist in other provinces as well.”

Hargrove later issued a clarification, but only of his statements regarding Harper and Quebec.

Hargrove’s statement said he recognized Harper is a federalist, but said that the Tory leader’s idea of devolving power to the provinces would harm the federation.

Hargrove was much more blunt speaking to reporters in Strathroy.

“If you devolve all the powers to the provinces, what do you have left?” he said. “His view of the country is a separatist view.”

Under repeated questioning from reporters about whether Quebecers should vote for the separatist Bloc Quebecois rather than a Conservative, Hargrove appeared to support the Bloc.

“I would urge them to stop Harper in any way they can,” he said of Quebec voters.

His comments on Alberta were even more provocative.

“Mr. Harper doesn’t have a sense of Canada and its communities,” the union leader said.

“His sense is about Alberta. The wealth of Alberta everybody recognizes is much greater than it is anywhere in Canada. Those principles that he is brought up with and believes in coming out of there don’t sit well with the rest of Canada.”

In Toronto, Harper called Hargrove’s comments “shocking.”

“Mr. Hargrove, who is one of Mr. Martin’s key campaign supporters, is now urging people to vote for the Bloc and I wonder what Mr. Martin thinks of that,” Harper said.

“I think Mr. Martin should distance himself from Mr. Hargrove’s comments. I don’t think any federalist leader should be urging people to vote for the Bloc.”

Harper said Hargrove’s comments show a partisanship that puts the interests of the Liberals above those of the country.

Hargrove first began generating campaign headlines last month when, despite the long-held alliance between the labour movement and the left-wing New Democrats, he made a show of supporting Martin’s Liberals.

His diatribe this morning extended to NDP Leader Jack Layton, who he criticized for spending too much time attacking Martin’s government, “as if undermining Liberals was going to strengthen the NDP.”

“I think that was a short-term view of the values of Canada.”

Layton, campaigning in Halifax, responded by suggesting Hargrove is out of touch with the vast majority of Canadians.

For several days, Martin — his campaign badly lagging behind the Conservatives, polls suggest — has been aggressively attacking Layton in an attempt to woo or frighten NDP voters into the Liberal fold.

Even after Hargrove’s comments, Martin was still sticking with the controversial union leader.

“Buzz Hargrove plays a very important role in this country,” Martin told reporters.

“When Buzz Hargrove comes here with some of his other union leaders and essentially says to the progressive forces — to NDP voters — . . . `I believe that all of these (Liberal) people should be elected,’ that is a very powerful statement.”

Guess this guy didn't get the memo from Buzz Hargrove and Paul Martin on how to stop separtists by voting for the separtist party rather than federalist parties besides the Liberals..

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/Ca ... 74-cp.html

Quebec Liberal flip-flops on Tories

SAGUENAY, Que. (CP) - A Liberal candidate who questioned Prime Minister Paul Martin's leadership skills and said he was conceding defeat and supporting his Conservative rival has changed his mind.

He now says he never conceded anything and will fight for his party to the end.

Gilles Savard, the Liberal candidate for the riding of Jonquiere-Alma, participated in a noon-hour candidates' forum Thursday.

Shortly after, he told a local radio station he conceded defeat and was urging his supporters to vote for Conservative Jean-Pierre Blackburn to consolidate the federalist vote in a riding the Bloc Quebecois has held for more than 12 years.

"It's certain that tomorrow I won't be the member here," said Savard. "That said, in my mind I'm sure that Mr. Blackburn should be the next member, that's how I see it."

In a separate interview with all-news channel LCN, Savard suggested Martin had characteristics that hinder his political success.

"Paul Martin, he's a good guy," Savard told the French-language network. "He's a guy who is able to take criticism, who is able to work with a large group of people. Essentially, he's not spiteful and he doesn't hold a grudge.

"Unfortunately, I have to say, these qualities become problematic in politics."

The Liberal party then issued a news release Thursday night that it said "clarified" Savard's comments.

"I do not concede victory to any of my adversaries before the actual results of the election are known," Savard was quoted as saying.

He went on to invite "all Liberal voters" to continue backing him - then added that, whatever they do, they should "support candidates with federalist convictions, keeping Canada's best interests at heart."

Savard's adviser, Jean-Guy Boily, told a local newspaper earlier this week he was abandoning the Liberal campaign to help Blackburn.

Boily said the deciding moment for him came when Conservative Leader Stephen Harper named Blackburn during the French-language campaign debate in Montreal.

"We made the link that Mr. Blackburn could become a minister," Boily said in a telephone interview Thursday. "The vote now will be a strategic one."

Boily said regions outside the major urban centres should place their own interests first. "Resource-rich regions like ours can't allow ourselves to have allegiance with a political party."

Blackburn told The Canadian Press he welcomed the apparent last-minute support from his Liberal opponent and his team, though it did catch him by surprise.

"It's very seldom you see this in politics, and especially to see it in the last week," he said.

Blackburn was an MP for the Progressive Conservatives under former prime minister Brian Mulroney, winning in 1984 and '88.

But the Bloc has held the seat since 1993 in a region that has long supported sovereignty provincially.

Blackburn said he's seen a swell of support for the Tories throughout the riding, and Quebec, in recent weeks - but he needs more than Liberals to get him elected.

"I appreciate this, but it's not enough," said Blackburn. "I absolutely need people who support the Bloc to come to me."

Blackburn said Savard didn't speak specifically about having members of his campaign team help get the vote out Monday.

Under Elections Canada rules, Savard's name will remain on the ballot even if he chooses to end his campaign early.

Local media reported that polls conducted over the weekend put Liberal support in the riding under 10 per cent, while the Tories were at 37 per cent. Support for the Bloc neared 50 per cent.

In the 2004 election, Bloc candidate Sebastien Gagnon won the riding by more than 11,000 votes over his closest rival, Liberal Daniel Giguere.

Wasn't Harper the guy that co-authored the Firewall letter to Klein suggesting he use the oil revenue to opt out of CHA, social programs and evict the RCMP in favour of Alberta police.

One might argue Harper is a worse seperatist then the Bloc leader...at least the bloc is honest about it.

"..One might argue Harper is a worse seperatist then the Bloc leader...at least the bloc is honest about it."

One might, if you're Buzz Hargrove who has repeatedly endorsed the Bloc.. or if you're breaking the pills in half and not taking the full meds.. or if the tinfoil hat is just getting so so itchy.

Probably explains why a true federalist like Stephane Dion would say something like this:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... ection2006

...In yet more controversy on the Quebec front, Environment Minister Stephane Dion seemed to suggest it would be okay to vote Conservative or NDP.

"The key point is vote for candidates who believe in Canada to not vote for the Bloc," he said.

Guess its all in the perception...personally, I believe its you Harperites that are taking the wrong meds and forgetting your pyramid hats.

LOL geez..some of you guys voting Conservatives are the same people who ridiculed americans for voting in Bush...is there a way to tell Bush and Harper apart?

Where and when has Paul Martin supported the nonsense that Hargrove was spewing?

Hargrove is merely a union leader who felt that supporting the Liberals would benefit his members more than supporting the NDP this time around since there appeared to be a better chance of a Conservative victory ... and there aren't too many things that a union or union leader fear more than a party that tends to favour the management side over the worker's side. Hargrove is not an official of the Liberal party, merely a supporter with some clout. He does not speak for Paul Martin or the Liberal party.

Jocy's attempt to portray otherwise is typical political disingenuity (there was a great column in the Guardian yesterday about how the Conservatives have used spin and disingenuity to fool not only voters but the media as well ... pandering to the general public with small ticket offerings like the child tax credit or the 1% GST cut, while quietly slipping in a massive tax savings that will benefit Canada's richest 1% and take billions out of the treasury that could be applied to social programs or debt reduction).

I applaud Mr. Savard and Mr. Dion for their selfless outlook, for their Canada first position.

I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that Hargrove is a jackass for making the comments he made ... but to portray his comments as the position of Paul Martin and/or the Liberal party is way over the top.

"..is there a way to tell Bush and Harper apart?" Hmm,

one is American (Bush), the other is Canadian (Harper)

one is a multi-millionaire (Bush), the other isn't (Harper)

one was born in New Haven, Conn. (Bush), the other was born in Toronto (Harper)

one is a born again evangelical (Bush), the other isn't (Harper)

one uses a universal public health care system (Harper), the other doesn't (Bush)

one has a family with young children (Harper), one has a family with grown children (Bush)

one's father was President of the United States (Bush), the other's father was an accountant (Harper)

one is a distant cousin to Ricky from the Trailer Park Boys (Harper), the other just lived his lifestyle until he hit 40 (Bush)

one was educated at an elite private school (Bush), the other in a public school system (Harper)

"...some of you guys voting Conservatives are the same people who ridiculed americans for voting in Bush."

There are also lots of people voting Conservative who thought that Kerry was the better choice in that election. Despite the best hysterics of people like Buzz Hargrove, Paul Martin and others the simple fact remains that George W. Bush is not on the ballot on Monday, no matter how much many Canadians would enjoy voting him out of office if they had a chance.

"..Where and when has Paul Martin supported the nonsense that Hargrove was spewing?...Hargrove is not an official of the Liberal party, merely a supporter with some clout. He does not speak for Paul Martin or the Liberal party. "

Usually people off the street aren't given time at the microphone to make speeches to the national press corps right after the Prime Minister speaks at Liberal campaign events.

http://www.canada.com/national/features ... 448435b18c

Prime Minister Paul Martin found himself defending the man who wants his job Wednesday after Martin's most influential labour supporter launched a tirade against Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, calling him a separatist.

Canadian Auto Workers union president Buzz Hargrove attended a Martin campaign event in Ontario where he endorsed the local Liberal candidates and then launched his assault.

The political storm began early Wednesday morning when Martin visited a small restaurant in this southern Ontario town to campaign on behalf of some Liberal candidates.

Among those on hand were Hargrove, who early in the campaign publicly embraced Martin, declaring that Canadians should vote strategically by supporting Liberals in ridings where New Democrats don't have a chance of winning.

After Martin addressed the small crowd, Hargrove took the microphone and, insisting he didn't want to steal the limelight from the Liberal leader, gave a short speech.

"It's your day," he said to Martin. "I'm not running for office."

Afterwards, he took questions from the media. Hargrove suggested the Liberals appear poised to be reduced to third-party status and that NDP Leader Jack Layton has given Harper an easy ride.

And this from Macleans:

http://weblogs.macleans.ca/paulwells/

Choose your Canada

"Hargrove said that a Harper-led government would put in place 'a framework that will make it easier for the separatists to win in Quebec -- surely that's pretty close to being a separatist.'

"The CAW head seemed to suggest that Quebecers should even vote for the Bloc Québécois if it meant keeping out the Conservatives. 'I would urge them to stop Stephen Harper in any way they can,' he said."

Paul Martin stood appreciatively beside the union boss while he said this. It matters who you choose to lead the country, and what his values are.

>> Send your comments to Paul Wells

Posted by Paul Wells at 12:43 PM 01/18/2006

Buzz Hargrove is not "someone off the street". He is the most influential union leader in Canada and as such is a bit of a symbol of the average working stiff.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if Hargrove was supporting the Conservatives, Harper would have him on his podium

And I've seen it reported differently.

Reporters have their own political opinions which they try to convey to their readership through subtle inferences and word usage. Surprised you've never noticed that

"...Buzz Hargrove is not "someone off the street"."

Thank you for proving my point. Hargrove would not have just been given the microphone at a Liberal campaign event to speak right after the Prime Minister. If Hargrove's 'nonsense' wasn't part of the Liberal campaign then why would Martin feel compelled to be issuing statements to the media on his behalf yet still try and suggest that his endorsement was something to be proud of?

CTV reported that "Hargrove was with Martin in a southwestern Ontario restaurant as the Liberal leader wooed NDP votes."

The Toronto Star (hardly a bastion of Conservative support) reported that "Prime Minister Paul Martin issued a retraction on Hargrove’s behalf as soon as the comments hit the news wires, and was forced to praise Harper’s patriotism in an effort to quell the controversy."

In the very same article that "Even after Hargrove’s comments, Martin was still sticking with the controversial union leader.

“Buzz Hargrove plays a very important role in this country,” Martin told reporters.

“When Buzz Hargrove comes here with some of his other union leaders and essentially says to the progressive forces — to NDP voters — . . . `I believe that all of these (Liberal) people should be elected,’ that is a very powerful statement.”

"..And I've seen it reported differently.

Reporters have their own political opinions which they try to convey to their readership through subtle inferences and word usage. Surprised you've never noticed that."

Facinating. I would never have thought Paul Wells was a Conservative sympathizer based on his previous work but if his slant truly concerns you I suppose he can always be reached at:

pwells@macleans.ca

You're being disingenious again

He was part of the campaign because he is a person with a lot of clout that can sway a hell of a lot of votes, not because he is an official representative of Paul Martin nor the Liberal Party.

Hargrove goofed. But because of the literally millions of votes that Hargrove can bring to the Liberals, of course Martin is going to put on a happy face even if inwardly he must have been groaning.


And I haven't got a clue who Paul Wells is ... I was merely pointing out that I've seen Martin's reaction reported differently and pointed out the obvious fact that even reporters can report the news seemingly factually while still slanting the story through the clever use of words or sentence structure. Much the same way you did above by taking a sentence out of its context to say that it proved your point.


Hargrove's goof doesn't seem to have mattered anyway. The Globe and Mail is reporting that the latest Counsel poll (the same one that Conservatives have been jumping with glee about lately) has shown a dramatic change because Harper has started putting his foot in his mouth again and reminding folks that behind the fake smiles and glossy campaign material, there is an agenda that really has no appeal to the majority of folks ... no matter how badly they want to punish the liberals. The shift over the last 3 days is not enough (yet) to prevent a Conservative victory, but is plenty enough to prevent a Conservative majority. Which I, and most Canadians I think, could live with because it would ensure that Harper would have to be on best behaviour.

*sigh* where to begin?

"..Where and when has Paul Martin supported the nonsense that Hargrove was spewing?"

"..He was part of the campaign because he is a person with a lot of clout that can sway a hell of a lot of votes, not because he is an official representative of Paul Martin nor the Liberal Party. "

You can't have it both ways. He's either part of the campaign or not. To most reasonable people travelling with the Prime Minister on his tour, sharing a stage with him at campaign events and doing media interviews in support of the Prime Minister would make someone a part of the campaign.

As you yourself said, he's part of the campaign for a reason which is fine and his right. However, when you've tried to bill yourself as Captain Canada and proclaimed that 'fighting separatism is part of my DNA' to then let such hysteria and fear mongering loose from your campaign events it makes one come across as a tad, disingenious. Not to mention desperate.

Ever considered a career as a political spin doctor?

For frig's sake, just because Hargove was on the podium doesn't mean that he was speaking from a prepared speech written by and for the Liberal party!!! He was speaking his own mind, not as a "representative" of Liberal party policy (Hell, isn't Hargrove a card carrying member of the NDP anyway?)

Perhaps it was stupid of the campaign handlers to not vet what Hargrove was going to say, but perhaps they felt that if a man is intelligent enough to become the most influential union leader in Canada, then he might be intelligent enough to not stick his foot in his mouth.

"..He was speaking his own mind, not as a "representative" of Liberal party policy."

I might be inclined to agree with you, except when you see things like this in today's Halifax Chronicle Herald:

Nova Scotians can’t trust Peter MacKay to look after their interests in a Conservative government, says Paul Martin, because scary right-wing Albertans will be running the show.
"Peter MacKay doesn’t really count," the prime minister said in a phone interview from Ontario on Thursday.

"All of Stephen Harper’s advisers come from Calgary. They come from where he is. Peter MacKay is not going to be the person who’s going to be deciding."

Sadly, it's becoming more and more clear that the fear mongering and hysteria being hurled at Canadians from the Liberals is coming straight from the top. Martin will say and do anything in a desperate bid to hang onto power at all costs.