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Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

What do you think of evidence of jurisdiction?
I think jurisdiction applies even without evidence? 60%  60%  [ 3 ]
I think jurisdiction applies only with evidence? 40%  40%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 5
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 13th, 2015, 9:43 am 
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Joined: July 4th, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 672
ashleyjohnston wrote:
sasha wrote:
I might not be smart enough to understand the question as the answer seems too simple and obvious.
By the rest of your response I will agree that you don't understand the question. I cant comment on your abilities but I appreciate your humility. Elsewhere we can talk about all of the things I don't understand.

sasha wrote:
If I remember correctly from the prep for citizenship test, there was a Constitution Act provinces agreed on as they formed the Union. As other provinces joined, they accepted that act. The act clearly lists which laws are provincial and which laws are within federal scope. Forming the Union and joining to it, hence accepting that Act, was democratic process. The laws passed since were also part of democratic process. Constitution Act, which was agreed upon by all provinces joining new union clearly gives right to provinces to enact and enforce laws which apply to "any person or persons... on its territory", so not just "Islanders" or "residents".
To sum this portion:
Quote:
Governments of provinces asked people for input about what agreements to have with other governments. This 'clearly' allows those governments to enforce those rules on 'people on its territory'.

It is that 'clearly' part that people tend to gloss over.


You misquoted me. With "clearly" I was referring to the two sections of the Act that "clearly" list which laws can be enacted and enforced by provincial and federal authorities.

ashleyjohnston wrote:
These governments are taking democratic input, creating relationships with each other and making laws. Where is the explanation about why these laws apply to people on Prince Edward Island? My question is exactly about the 'clearly' part.


We just had an election. 86% of adults made an effort and showed their support for existing democratic process where we delegate some of our personal power to our elected representatives which invests them with power to enact and enforce laws on our behalf. You might ask for the evidence that voting gives them that power. Well, they had the power before elections and people were aware of it, and then come election day people voted to reinforce that. So every 4 years we reiterate our support for the democratic process and delegation of power.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 13th, 2015, 10:16 am 
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Member

Joined: November 12th, 2004, 8:55 am
Posts: 2160
Location: Islander
ashleyjohnston wrote:
alandla wrote:
ashleyjohnston wrote:
So, if I am charged in PEI with breaking a Chinese law in Michigan then to bring this to the attention of the judge is to assume they have jurisdiction?
How would that happen?
Any arbitrary authority could try it.


so your argument is "anything can happen". In that case, the answer to all your questions are on pluto living with the supreme leader.

Quote:
alandla wrote:
ashleyjohnston wrote:
Quote:
British law said that British law applied in India...
Until India became independent.


I submit that you need to secede.

Mind you, you may have a harder time finding diplomatic relations than North Korea :lol:
I have no issue with secession. I welcome the challenges of freedom.


Until you find you need a passport to leave your front porch, your own currency to buy anything, your own source of power, food, medical help, etc....


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 13th, 2015, 4:35 pm 
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Almost an Islander
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Joined: February 5th, 2009, 12:38 pm
Posts: 336
Location: Charlottetown
ashleyjohnston wrote:
These governments are taking democratic input, creating relationships with each other and making laws. Where is the explanation about why these laws apply to people on Prince Edward Island? My question is exactly about the 'clearly' part.


sasha wrote:
We just had an election. 86% of adults made an effort and showed their support for existing democratic process where we delegate some of our personal power to our elected representatives which invests them with power to enact and enforce laws on our behalf. You might ask for the evidence that voting gives them that power. Well, they had the power before elections and people were aware of it, and then come election day people voted to reinforce that. So every 4 years we reiterate our support for the democratic process and delegation of power.
I'm not sure what is happening here... we agreed that jurisdiction was bound the territory, but there is no mention of territory or jurisdiction above. I'm not sure what is the conclusion of the above.

I suspect that this is a list of good things about the Government of Prince Edward Island. Good turnout, regular elections, a return of the governing party. Yes, these are all good indicators about the quality of the government of PEI. Unfortunately they don't get us any closer to the goal of demonstrating jurisdiction. What is the connection to your above passage and jurisdiction? Is it, as I suspect, a list of good things about the Government of Prince Edward Island that is supposed to show that they deserve jurisdiction?

You mentioned a citizenship test. Do you want to write about the type of government you formerly lived under? Are you comparing the Government of Prince Edward Island to your previous government?

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 13th, 2015, 6:16 pm 
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Junior Member

Joined: July 4th, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 672
ashleyjohnston wrote:
ashleyjohnston wrote:
These governments are taking democratic input, creating relationships with each other and making laws. Where is the explanation about why these laws apply to people on Prince Edward Island? My question is exactly about the 'clearly' part.


sasha wrote:
We just had an election. 86% of adults made an effort and showed their support for existing democratic process where we delegate some of our personal power to our elected representatives which invests them with power to enact and enforce laws on our behalf. You might ask for the evidence that voting gives them that power. Well, they had the power before elections and people were aware of it, and then come election day people voted to reinforce that. So every 4 years we reiterate our support for the democratic process and delegation of power.
I'm not sure what is happening here... we agreed that jurisdiction was bound the territory, but there is no mention of territory or jurisdiction above. I'm not sure what is the conclusion of the above.

I suspect that this is a list of good things about the Government of Prince Edward Island. Good turnout, regular elections, a return of the governing party. Yes, these are all good indicators about the quality of the government of PEI. Unfortunately they don't get us any closer to the goal of demonstrating jurisdiction. What is the connection to your above passage and jurisdiction? Is it, as I suspect, a list of good things about the Government of Prince Edward Island that is supposed to show that they deserve jurisdiction?

You mentioned a citizenship test. Do you want to write about the type of government you formerly lived under? Are you comparing the Government of Prince Edward Island to your previous government?


I think you missed the point. I did not comment about quality of PEI government but about large number of people being involved into democratic process. All of those people expressed their acceptance and support for the delegation system we have in place where we transfer some of out personal power to our delegates. All of those people accept that provincial government has a jurisdiction over provincial territory.

The bottom line is that 86% of adults here believes government has a jurisdiction over the Island's teritiory and, if nothing else, that would make that jurisdiction real.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 14th, 2015, 9:01 am 
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Almost an Islander
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Joined: February 5th, 2009, 12:38 pm
Posts: 336
Location: Charlottetown
sasha wrote:
I think you missed the point.
It seems I did

sasha wrote:
I did not comment about quality of PEI government but about large number of people being involved into democratic process. All of those people expressed their acceptance and support for the delegation system we have in place where we transfer some of out personal power to our delegates. All of those people accept that provincial government has a jurisdiction over provincial territory.

The bottom line is that 86% of adults here believes government has a jurisdiction over the Island's teritiory and, if nothing else, that would make that jurisdiction real.
I will readily admit that 'the Government of Prince Edward Island has jurisdiction' belong in the same constellation of thought as 'belief makes it real'. That constellation being 'make believe'.

Either you can tell the difference between 'reason and evidence' and 'belief make it real' or you can't. Either way we have nothing more to talk about.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 14th, 2015, 9:28 am 
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Almost an Islander
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Joined: February 5th, 2009, 12:38 pm
Posts: 336
Location: Charlottetown
alandla wrote:
so your argument is "anything can happen". In that case, the answer to all your questions are on pluto living with the supreme leader.
I have no idea where this came from or where it is going. I am opting out of this thread.

alandla wrote:
ashleyjohnston wrote:
alandla wrote:
ashleyjohnston wrote:
British law said that British law applied in India...
Until India became independent. I submit that you need to secede.

Mind you, you may have a harder time finding diplomatic relations than North Korea :lol:
I have no issue with secession. I welcome the challenges of freedom.
Until you find you need a passport to leave your front porch, your own currency to buy anything, your own source of power, food, medical help, etc....
Even then. For those of you afraid of freedom, may your chains set lightly upon you.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 14th, 2015, 9:46 am 
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Joined: February 5th, 2009, 12:38 pm
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Location: Charlottetown
betamaxman wrote:
If a tree falls in the forest..............
That is the kind of question you are asking. There is really no point in debating it,
It had practical implications for Indians that no longer have to answer to London. It had practical implications for the 262M people murdered by their own government in the 20th century.

betamaxman wrote:
or way to debate it.
This fits neatly into established logic: an assertion is made without evidence and can be dismissed without evidence. There is no evidence of jurisdiction for the Government of Prince Edward Island, so claims of such can be dismissed without further consideration.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 14th, 2015, 1:10 pm 
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Member

Joined: November 12th, 2004, 8:55 am
Posts: 2160
Location: Islander
ashleyjohnston wrote:
I have no idea where this came from or where it is going. I am opting out of this thread.


You said any arbitrary authority could try it.

So you are reaching for any number of possible scenarios, however unlikely, to support your argument.

as you seem to acknowledge that you are grasping at straws, indeed you should opt out.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 14th, 2015, 6:10 pm 
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Joined: January 20th, 2015, 2:36 pm
Posts: 23
ashleyjohnston wrote:
This fact alone fails to explain who is subject to those laws.

This is a ludicrous statement. If you reside on PEI, you are subject to the laws of the Island. If you visit PEI you are subject to the laws of Island.

That is all the facts anyone needs to know, yourself included. If you feel the laws should not apply to you, you have two options. 1: You can move somewhere where you feel the laws do apply to you. 2: You can put forth your name in the next election and once elected, bring forth change in the legislature. The same legislature that enacted said laws.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 14th, 2015, 7:17 pm 
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Joined: June 19th, 2013, 10:43 am
Posts: 450
Location: Cyberian wilderness
ashleyjohnston wrote:
Justin O'Brien wrote:
If the challenge to prove jurisdiction is allowed to be heard in a court, then the decision must be in favour of the law. Otherwise the court is not allowed to hear the case due to the simple fact that the court hasn't the jurisdiction.
So, if I am charged in PEI with breaking a Chinese law in Michigan then to bring this to the attention of the judge is to assume they have jurisdiction?

Non sequitur. Doesn't follow at all.

A court will only hear a case if it has jurisdiction. And it has jurisdiction in the province where the law exists.

There is no proof of jurisdiction.

As an aside, there might or not be somewhere to find it official that there is jurisdiction' but that is not proof. You cannot prove jurisdiction any more than you can prove that the universe is not a figment of your imagination.

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