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Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 233 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 1:15 pm 
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oh but it was fun while it lasted,thanks.


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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 1:57 pm 
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spudislander wrote:
The rest of the Dr. Dowbiggin's comments in the Globe and Mail along with the full story.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... y/National

"This story has more legs than a centipede," said Ian Dowbiggin, chair of the department of history at the University of Prince Edward Island.

He said the story has aroused so much interest in part because of the amount of money involved - hundreds of millions of dollars - and also because the government has released so little information.

"Almost everything that we hear about the program ... is speculation. It's innuendo and rumour," Dr. Dowbiggin said.

"What I am prepared to say is that if even a third of what has been alleged about this program turns out to be true, it will be the biggest scandal in Prince Edward Island history."


Interesting view from an outsider but what credibility does he have? Formerislander has claimed that this will be the biggest scandal in PEI History too.... The only difference between this and what is on here, is he is taking a rational stance and he is awaiting REAL facts before making a drastic subject.

I wonder what some Economics or Business professors' take is on this subject.


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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 2:25 pm 
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islander07 wrote:
spudislander wrote:
The rest of the Dr. Dowbiggin's comments in the Globe and Mail along with the full story.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... y/National

"This story has more legs than a centipede," said Ian Dowbiggin, chair of the department of history at the University of Prince Edward Island.

He said the story has aroused so much interest in part because of the amount of money involved - hundreds of millions of dollars - and also because the government has released so little information.

"Almost everything that we hear about the program ... is speculation. It's innuendo and rumour," Dr. Dowbiggin said.

"What I am prepared to say is that if even a third of what has been alleged about this program turns out to be true, it will be the biggest scandal in Prince Edward Island history."


I wonder what some Economics or Business professors' take is on this subject.

they've already commented on it....it was near the start of the thread.

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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 2:26 pm 
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islander07 wrote:
spudislander wrote:
The rest of the Dr. Dowbiggin's comments in the Globe and Mail along with the full story.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... y/National

"This story has more legs than a centipede," said Ian Dowbiggin, chair of the department of history at the University of Prince Edward Island.

He said the story has aroused so much interest in part because of the amount of money involved - hundreds of millions of dollars - and also because the government has released so little information.

"Almost everything that we hear about the program ... is speculation. It's innuendo and rumour," Dr. Dowbiggin said.

"What I am prepared to say is that if even a third of what has been alleged about this program turns out to be true, it will be the biggest scandal in Prince Edward Island history."


Interesting view from an outsider but what credibility does he have? Formerislander has claimed that this will be the biggest scandal in PEI History too.... The only difference between this and what is on here, is he is taking a rational stance and he is awaiting REAL facts before making a drastic subject.

I wonder what some Economics or Business professors' take is on this subject.


Was that an invitation?

First, I'd have to say that Dr. Dowbiggin is probably a lot less of an outsider than I am, or than you seem to think.

For the most part, though, as I think I've already said, we don't really have the facts to judge this thing for sure. All we really have is a lot of speculation and innuendo. The idea that if a third of it is true it will be the biggest scandal ever is as much a backhanded swipe at the excessive amount of speculation as a guess as to how big it is.

And some of it depends on what scandalizes you. Frankly, the facts mentioned in the story that fees were paid for overseas interviews and bonuses paid don't really scandalize me per se. The process served both parties interests and seems a reasonable amount. The bonuses I think were likely a function of the pay structure of the group doing the work and aren't really excessive when you look at individual amounts.

As another example, I think we're getting a clear idea that the desire of the government to make maximum use of the program led to some excesses and sloppiness and questionable investments, but to what extent or in what sense is that scandalous? Clearly, if there were any kickbacks or if money was directed as rewards to political friends, that would be scandalous, but we just have speculation there as of yet I think. There's probably more evidence so far of greed and undue haste and questionable judgement, but is that scandalous or just stupidity?


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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 2:44 pm 
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People seem to think just because the PNP program is over with, that no similar program exists.

There is still an investor program through the Feds. The feds have been considering a new PNP with the minimum investment being $1 million. Unfortunately, such a program would likely virtually exclude participation of immigrants to PEI.

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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 3:13 pm 
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LostSole wrote:
linetwig i guess then the 3,927 goverment employee who used it would be classified as being nosey also?

perhaps the 3927 government employees using it are doing there job.

if they arent, they shold be doing there job and are being nosey yes.

the question is, do you need to access that information for a proper purpose, or do you need to go voulnteer your time at the soup kitchen?


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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 3:15 pm 
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LostSole wrote:
wow it is in the globe and mail now,hmmmmmm wonder when W5 will be looking into it lol

gee, didnt a certain other member who just got the boot claim the exact same thing? :wink:


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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 3:18 pm 
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LostSole wrote:
oh but it was fun while it lasted,thanks.

kinda like the time you spent n osing around other peoples business on line?


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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 5:56 pm 
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Here's a good take on this whole thing from an Island business that works in IT.

http://www.ceoblues.com/archive/2008/de ... orporation

OpenCorporations.org – Closed Forever
Posted by Dan James on Thursday, December 11, 2008 in Government, Open Corporations, Prince Edward Island - leave a comment

The government of Prince Edward Island has put a captcha in place on their corporations database search. This is in reaction to Peter’s effort to make the data contained within more useful.

I don’t need to point out how ridiculously knee-jerked of a reaction putting a captcha on a search is. Who restricts the search of data with a captcha?! Also, does the provincial government think they can win in a technical battle with geeks? Peter didn’t stop his importing because of the captcha. He stopped his importing because when they put a captcha up it signaled that they didn’t want him to access that data. It would have been much more effective, and cheaper, to simply call Peter and ask him to not scrape the site.

This is public data. This is data that not only should be available to the public, it should be made available with no barriers and in a useful manner. By trying to hide the data it indicates there is a reason to hide the data. Either there are some shady things going on in the data, the government simply believes that we, the general public, aren’t intelligent enough to parse the data, or that it doesn't have a clue as to what to do with this issue. I feel that either way we, as the public, should be outraged. That is our data they are keeping from us.

Hiding data from the public has never ended well for an institution. Knowledge is power. People don’t like institutions lording over them to have all of the power. This probably won’t end well for the current Liberal Government (I’m politically agnostic on PEI – The conservatives would have done the same thing).

Also, does the provincial government realize that by putting in place a visual captcha they have just limited access to public data to those of the population who are visually impaired? I’m not an expert but I think that’s going to rub some people the wrong way.

How do we resolve this? I see a few ways out of this for the Government:

* Apologize, remove the captcha, and encourage Peter to bring back OpenCorporations.org
* Build their own handy-dandy corporate search tool like that powering OpenCorporations.org.
* Put their head in the sand, ignore what’s really going on, and risk being voted out next time round by people like me who are pissed that their government is acting in such a ridiculous manner.
* Leave things as they currently are and start a process to figure out what is the right thing to do. What information should be collected? What parts of that collected data should be available? How should that data be made available in an era of computers and the web? Once they answer those questions then promptly change the official system to line up with the new decisions.

To those of you who own corporations on PEI and who have lobbied to get OpenCorporations.org closed down: A very special "shame on you". Your ability to have a corporation is a grace that we the public have extended to you. It is not yours to hide.

OpenCorporations.org is now CloseCorporations.org.


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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 6:18 pm 
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Ed The Sock wrote:
People seem to think just because the PNP program is over with, that no similar program exists.

There is still an investor program through the Feds. The feds have been considering a new PNP with the minimum investment being $1 million. Unfortunately, such a program would likely virtually exclude participation of immigrants to PEI.


I was actually surprised to hear it was 1/4 million here - since it has always been 1/2 million in most provinces in Canada. The investor program was originally brought in to assist people from Hong Kong when China took over that rock. Vancouver had a huge windfall off the program. You think 400 million is a lot - you should investigate how Van benefitted.

There was an article in the G&M the other day that the fed gov would move towards inforcing the 1/2 million program for all provinces - so maybe PEI just had a special deal going on.

Peter just opened a new site - closedcorporations.org - which will have all the data from the gov database as it was available up till 19 Nov. Go Peter!

Peter

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Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 6:29 pm 
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philipw wrote:
Ed The Sock wrote:
People seem to think just because the PNP program is over with, that no similar program exists.

There is still an investor program through the Feds. The feds have been considering a new PNP with the minimum investment being $1 million. Unfortunately, such a program would likely virtually exclude participation of immigrants to PEI.


I was actually surprised to hear it was 1/4 million here - since it has always been 1/2 million in most provinces in Canada. The investor program was originally brought in to assist people from Hong Kong when China took over that rock. Vancouver had a huge windfall off the program. You think 400 million is a lot - you should investigate how Van benefitted.

There was an article in the G&M the other day that the fed gov would move towards inforcing the 1/2 million program for all provinces - so maybe PEI just had a special deal going on.

Peter just opened a new site - closedcorporations.org - which will have all the data from the gov database as it was available up till 19 Nov. Go Peter!

Peter


Actually, the investment requirement varied by province and has since the beginning. If and when the amount is the same in all provinces, we'll get almost no investment. Given a Choice of investing in Charlottetown or Toronto for the same amount, they aren't going to pick PEI.

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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 6:55 pm 
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spudislander wrote:
Here's a good take on this whole thing from an Island business that works in IT.

Hardly, almost the opposite actually.

If the government called Peter and said Peter please shut down your website, then they would be singling out Peter and that would be unfair.

As stated before, the corporate registry could be searched via google for some companies/share holders. Without the captcha this indexing by google would continue.

Therefore, the province would have shut down one website and allowed Googles indexing to continue.

And that would have been hardly fair to Peter.

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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 9:31 pm 
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jmweb wrote:
And that would have been hardly fair to Peter.


http://ruk.ca/article/5130

Sounds like fairness to Peter was the last thing on the government's mind. Damage control was.


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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 9:41 pm 
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spudislander wrote:
jmweb wrote:
And that would have been hardly fair to Peter.


http://ruk.ca/article/5130

Sounds like fairness to Peter was the last thing on the government's mind. Damage control was.

Hardly relevant (Apples/Oranges), the only person who has called Peter a hacker is someone who is known for their lack of credibility as you can see in the comments on that same page.

That said, saying you haven't had access to the code or the database in 5 years isn't exactly proof of credibility. I can't imagine government changing the database every 5 years and if I remember correctly, Peter did say he made the site.

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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 9:51 pm 
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I'm really thinking out loud on this one but....

Peter made a site for the those who are interested in other peoples business...no doubt some of them who surfed this website are jealous of other peoples success.
When these same people see Peter interviewed regarding the site, some of the said jealous people may start to be jealous of Peter and start to trash him.

I'm no psychology wiz but there could be a connection there. Or I could be completely in left field.

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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 10:01 pm 
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jmweb wrote:
Hardly relevant (Apples/Oranges), the only person who has called Peter a hacker is someone who is known for their lack of credibility as you can see in the comments on that same page.

That said, saying you haven't had access to the code or the database in 5 years isn't exactly proof of credibility. I can't imagine government changing the database every 5 years and if I remember correctly, Peter did say he made the site.


Pate's not the only one. There was a 'party person' in the checkout line at the mall tonight trying to peddle that story too and they weren't someone who would have came up with that on their own.

At this point given all the stonewalling, denials, back peddles, half truths and outright falsehoods from the government when it comes to this mess I'll take Rukavina's word.


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PostPosted: December 11th, 2008, 10:18 pm 
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as i said before gov should thank Peter Rukavina for makeing the site easier to use.


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PostPosted: December 12th, 2008, 6:55 pm 
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Questions-- and I'm asking it here knowing that the answer(s) to my questions are probably somewhere within these forms but I'm too lazy to search...

Does anyone have a firm-ish date to when the Auditor General will have a report on all this PNP stuff? Are we talking less than one year or years?

Also-- is the Federal Government doing their own investigation that will result in a public report? If so-- when?

And-- is the RCMP doing an investigation that will result in a public report? And if so-- when?

The reason I ask is that from what I've heard, there are 3 different groups that are digging for the actual truth. And after all the OpenCorp stuff that's been in the news... and my own unfounded & nosey suspicions... I guess I'm just wondering when the TRUTH will be revealed?

Anyone have an ETA?


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PostPosted: December 12th, 2008, 7:38 pm 
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Anyone have an ETA?[/quote]
Quote:
Does anyone have a firm-ish date to when the Auditor General will have a report on all this PNP stuff? Are we talking less than one year or years?


audit. 1. v. To examine financial or performance records. 2. n. Any such examination. 3. By extension, any examination designed to identify problems or areas for improvement, such as an "audit of travel agency procedures."

Just from personal interpretation of audit requirements, I'd say that a normal business audit takes from 1 to 3 months. In such an audit, the auditor generally only has to determine that the books are sufficiently accurate to arrive at a materially accurate expression of the profit (loss) and any applicable assets and liabilities. The audit also must assure that operation of the enterprise has been in accordance to any and all applicable corporate motions on record.

An audit of a specific aspect of a provincial department done upon request of the government, and not as the standard AG report, would be expected to take between 3 to 9 months. In such an audit, one must audit the financial aspects of the department in accordance to any provincial legislation and where applicable, any federal regulations. The auditor has to allow for interviews of a large number of people involved in the program, even though the AG doesn't have the right to force deposition of those involved.

A forensic audit would take from 6 months to a bit over a year.
Such an audit would involve deposing parties involved in the enterprise.

Quote:
Also-- is the Federal Government doing their own investigation that will result in a public report? If so-- when?


The Feds have not indicated the need for an audit. Unless it is demonstrated that the provincial program was illegal under the parameters of the federal program, they will not.

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PostPosted: December 12th, 2008, 10:32 pm 
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Hey Ed--

Thanks for the info. So we're really looking well into the 2009 calendar--- well, well into-- before we might see the report. I guess in hindsight, that it did take a dang long time to get to the bottom of Polar! Not that I'm comparing to start that debate again.... or if we ever did get to the bottom.

I guess the whole rumour mill will have plenty of time to kick into all sorts of other gears between now and then.


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