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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 26th, 2015, 5:57 pm 
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Almost an Islander

Joined: November 16th, 2014, 12:56 am
Posts: 286
Gardiner wrote:
Rascal wrote:
Of those who favor the 'None of the above' option could you please answer the questions I asked earlier. See sample results below.

If more people tick the 'None of the above' box, who wins the seat?
Do we have to have another election in that riding to decide a winner?
Does the person who receives the most votes win?
Does the riding do without representation?

Voting results
PC CLEMENTS, Linda - 25
Liberal DUMVILLE, Bush - 25
NDP MEGGS, Peter - 4
Green SANDERSON, Charles - 1
None of the above - 45



The person who receives the most votes win.


In other words nothing changes.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 26th, 2015, 7:12 pm 
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Member
User avatar

Joined: February 25th, 2013, 8:36 pm
Posts: 1526
Blake McKinley wrote:
Gardiner wrote:
Rascal wrote:
Of those who favor the 'None of the above' option could you please answer the questions I asked earlier. See sample results below.

If more people tick the 'None of the above' box, who wins the seat?
Do we have to have another election in that riding to decide a winner?
Does the person who receives the most votes win?
Does the riding do without representation?

Voting results
PC CLEMENTS, Linda - 25
Liberal DUMVILLE, Bush - 25
NDP MEGGS, Peter - 4
Green SANDERSON, Charles - 1
None of the above - 45



The person who receives the most votes win.


In other words nothing changes.


A few things come to mine.
1. Voters who believe none of the candidates are worth voting for get their votes heard.

2. The higher the "none of the above" votes get then the message is stronger that we need more qualified candidates.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 26th, 2015, 7:35 pm 
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Almost an Islander

Joined: May 7th, 2009, 8:17 pm
Posts: 172
How about this instead: Instead of voting for no one, or the same thing, different party, or same thing, same party, Everyone pick 3 questions we would like an honest answer to, or a change we would really like to see. Lets see if any of the parties will actually answer and what we, the people who vote, really care about... not what the political parties think we care about.

I will start.

I would like a solid plan for Islanders to be able to buy a yearly pass for the bridge. Lets say an additional $75 a year, added to the sticker we purchase each year for our vehicle license. It could be a different colour, showing that we paid our yearly fee to get across.

I would like to know that we are working hard toward self sufficient medical care, where we don't have to leave the island to get, sometimes, life saving surgery.

and 3, I would like to see us bring in businesses that offer better wage, full time positions. I am a hard worker and loyal to my job and the company that I work for, but the price of 2 litres of milk has gone up higher then the amount of hourly raise I have had in the last 10 years. Raising minimum wages doesn't help because as soon as that happens everything else raises to compensate and the working poor still can't save anything for a rainy day....or that thing people with money do when they have time off...think they call it a holiday ?

Oh, and PS. If we could fix #3, we could afford #1 and #2

Your turn folks. What do we really want our politicians to change to get our vote?

_________________
EWWFSPIRIT


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 26th, 2015, 9:11 pm 
Offline
Almost an Islander

Joined: November 16th, 2014, 12:56 am
Posts: 286
Gardiner wrote:
Blake McKinley wrote:
Gardiner wrote:
Rascal wrote:
Of those who favor the 'None of the above' option could you please answer the questions I asked earlier. See sample results below.

If more people tick the 'None of the above' box, who wins the seat?
Do we have to have another election in that riding to decide a winner?
Does the person who receives the most votes win?
Does the riding do without representation?

Voting results
PC CLEMENTS, Linda - 25
Liberal DUMVILLE, Bush - 25
NDP MEGGS, Peter - 4
Green SANDERSON, Charles - 1
None of the above - 45



The person who receives the most votes win.


In other words nothing changes.


A few things come to mine.
1. Voters who believe none of the candidates are worth voting for get their votes heard.

2. The higher the "none of the above" votes get then the message is stronger that we need more qualified candidates.


1, Votes heard by who?
2. Again, who is getting that message and how is it going to attract more qualified candidates? What is your definition of a qualified candidate? You have already written off two candidates in your riding because they are not PC or Liberal.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 26th, 2015, 9:44 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
Blake McKinley wrote:
I'll ask again. How would any of this improve the system?

Hopefully it would lead to meaningful electoral reform.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 26th, 2015, 9:53 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
ewwfspirit wrote:
I would like a solid plan for Islanders to be able to buy a yearly pass for the bridge. Lets say an additional $75 a year, added to the sticker we purchase each year for our vehicle license. It could be a different colour, showing that we paid our yearly fee to get across.

This isn't going to happen before 2032 and any provincial party would be foolish to try and subsidize the costs of crossing the bridge. Why would we want to subsidize islanders leaving the island to spend their money elsewhere? How would this benefit PEI? I would support help for people who have to travel off island for medical reasons, but I don't think we should be subsidizing Joe Blow's Costco trip.

ewwfspirit wrote:
I would like to know that we are working hard toward self sufficient medical care, where we don't have to leave the island to get, sometimes, life saving surgery.

If someone has to leave the island for life saving surgery, there is probably a good reason it isn't done here.

ewwfspirit wrote:
and 3, I would like to see us bring in businesses that offer better wage, full time positions. I am a hard worker and loyal to my job and the company that I work for, but the price of 2 litres of milk has gone up higher then the amount of hourly raise I have had in the last 10 years. Raising minimum wages doesn't help because as soon as that happens everything else raises to compensate and the working poor still can't save anything for a rainy day....or that thing people with money do when they have time off...think they call it a holiday ?

I would like to see political parties stop pretending they are going to create these magical full time, good paying jobs.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 7:56 am 
Offline
Almost an Islander

Joined: May 7th, 2009, 8:17 pm
Posts: 172
Costco ? Seriously ? Forget bridge costs, just the price of gas there makes any savings disappear. However I would love to be able to afford to visit my in laws in NB or my daughter in Ontario without adding another $50 to the budget. How about taking my grandson to the zoo ? I spend plenty of money here, and I will bet so do most people who live here. And I doubt feeling the freedom to leave anytime we wanted, without costs, would really change that. it would just change the mindset that we are stuck here without paying a fee to leave.

Won't comment on the life saving surgery...seriously ? I agree, I am tired of hearing about those great jobs that never happen, but why not ? Stop dickering around with the platitudes and show me a solid plan to bring in businesses that aren't call centers and pay decent wages and I will vote for you.

_________________
EWWFSPIRIT


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 10:49 am 
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Site Admin (volunteer)
User avatar

Joined: November 1st, 2003, 7:55 am
Posts: 16903
Location: Brackley Beach PE / Lake Wales FL
Gardiner wrote:
I vote person and not party

Gardiner wrote:
I refuse to vote red and IMO to vote any other color would be a wasted vote.


So which one of those diametrically opposed statements is closer to the truth? :)


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 11:26 am 
Offline
From Away

Joined: December 30th, 2014, 10:34 am
Posts: 52
craiger wrote:
I would like to see political parties stop pretending they are going to create these magical full time, good paying jobs.


I agree.

We've talked about this before, but I'll re-post this to try and convince the new folks. :D

----------------------
No one, not even government, can 'create' a real job. A 'job' is something that 'needs doing'.

‘Back in the day’, before governments embarked on the re-distribution scheme now known euphemistically as ‘job creation’, a paid job was an agreement between two parties to trade skill and/or knowledge in the performance of a task that fills a need, for some kind of remuneration.

The result was that value was added to a product or service, which is the definition of the creation of wealth.

Employment, for most, has come to mean working for someone else, for pay. WalletWork. But that wasn’t always the case.

Let’s view ‘work’ as a continuum across human history. There was a time when we cave-dwellers were all self-employed. Everyone fended for himself and the fittest survived.

A bit farther along, kings and emperors expected their ‘subjects’ to ‘contribute’ to the realm in return for protection.

Centuries passed, and serfs gained their freedom. The most ambitious and energetic became entrepreneurs and hired others to work for them.

The division of labor, a key component of capitalism, requires the individual to only know how to do his specific task and nothing more. It has resulted in the demise of the craftsman, and his replacement by the ‘specialist’.

Prior to specialization a majority of people were largely self-sufficient. Specialization decreases people’s self-sufficiency and they become increasingly inter-dependent on one another. As they become aware of their vulnerability, the ‘safety net programs’ offered by liberal politicians look very attractive. Can these folks be relied upon to make good decisions at election time?

The assembly-line worker requires no extensive knowledge, no vision, and no concept of the completed product. Because he is basically dispensable, and can be easily replaced, he has had to resort to unionization in order to achieve some job security.

The bottom line – Specialization of tasks has allowed capitalist societies to become increasingly successful. The down side - Large numbers of their citizens become increasingly ignorant and poor.

We have arrived at a point where, in my opinion, too many of us expect someone else to provide us with ‘employment’, and if a suitable job isn’t readily available, we want the rest of society, through our representatives in government, to ‘do something about it’.

The notion that we can all work for someone else is unrealistic and unsustainable, but our governments, by way of the schools, are conditioning young people to expect exactly that.

Ed


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 11:59 am 
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Member
User avatar

Joined: February 25th, 2013, 8:36 pm
Posts: 1526
kreskin wrote:
Gardiner wrote:
I vote person and not party

Gardiner wrote:
I refuse to vote red and IMO to vote any other color would be a wasted vote.


So which one of those diametrically opposed statements is closer to the truth? :)

Most conversations I have with you lately ends badly for me(my latest blacklist) and apparently because you have an admin status I cannot add you as a foe. So I'm using this opportunity to make you an unofficial foe of mine.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 2:50 pm 
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Site Admin (volunteer)
User avatar

Joined: November 1st, 2003, 7:55 am
Posts: 16903
Location: Brackley Beach PE / Lake Wales FL
Gardiner wrote:
kreskin wrote:
Gardiner wrote:
I vote person and not party

Gardiner wrote:
I refuse to vote red and IMO to vote any other color would be a wasted vote.


So which one of those diametrically opposed statements is closer to the truth? :)

Most conversations I have with you lately ends badly for me(my latest blacklist) and apparently because you have an admin status I cannot add you as a foe. So I'm using this opportunity to make you an unofficial foe of mine.


:shock:

Blacklist? Seriously? In what context do you mean "blacklist"? Do you think I suspended your account?


Look, I simply asked for clarification about a seeming discrepancy in your position.

If you prefer not to answer, that is your prerogative (although I will give you marks for finding a new and interesting way to avoid answering :lol: )


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 3:15 pm 
Offline
Almost an Islander

Joined: November 16th, 2014, 12:56 am
Posts: 286
craiger wrote:
Blake McKinley wrote:
I'll ask again. How would any of this improve the system?

Hopefully it would lead to meaningful electoral reform.


How would it do that?
If the people who have for decades resisted electoral reform keep getting elected how will reform come about.
If 25% of the ballots are cast for "none of the above" that is 25% wasted votes that could have been used to unseat one of the two parties that are not performing.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 3:24 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: February 25th, 2013, 8:36 pm
Posts: 1526
Blake McKinley wrote:
craiger wrote:
Blake McKinley wrote:
I'll ask again. How would any of this improve the system?

Hopefully it would lead to meaningful electoral reform.


How would it do that?
If the people who have for decades resisted electoral reform keep getting elected how will reform come about.
If 25% of the ballots are cast for Does the person who receives the most votes win?" that is 25% wasted votes that could have been used to unseat one of the two parties that are not performing.

25% of "none of the above" votes will send a strong message that a reform is necessary.....I don't know how you can qualify them as wasted votes?


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 3:30 pm 
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Almost an Islander

Joined: November 16th, 2014, 12:56 am
Posts: 286
Sends a message to who?


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 4:16 pm 
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Tourist

Joined: January 20th, 2015, 2:36 pm
Posts: 23
Utterly ridiculous. The entire notion of this a slap in the face to veterans who fought for your right to vote, and for those who, regardless of your personal opinion of them, put their name forward.


Again, if you feel the candidates for election are subpar, then it is time for you to put your name on the ballot, stand on the door steps, and explain to the voters why you should be elected.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 4:35 pm 
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Member
User avatar

Joined: February 25th, 2013, 8:36 pm
Posts: 1526
Blake McKinley wrote:
Sends a message to who?

Any Governing power who wished to introduce electoral reform.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 4:43 pm 
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From Away

Joined: January 28th, 2012, 1:35 pm
Posts: 88
In Ontario & the prairies there is the option to vote "none of the above", sort of. You still go to the poll, but instead of submitting a ballot you let the returning officer know you're declining to vote and they make a note of it.

Here in PEI we don't have that option, so the best you can do is submit a blank vote. Rejected ballots are counted and reported, although there's no way to know whether someone nullified their ballot on purpose or by mistake. But I believe a blank vote speaks louder than no vote at all.

Blake asks a good question though. I don't know who listens to the message that declined / rejected ballots send. Once the election's over, whoever's in power carries on, business as usual. I think it would take a lot of protest votes to elicit electoral reform, but that's not a good enough reason to stay quiet. The alternative of voting for someone you don't support seems foolish to me.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 5:05 pm 
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Member
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Joined: February 25th, 2013, 8:36 pm
Posts: 1526
screenname wrote:
Utterly ridiculous. The entire notion of this a slap in the face to veterans who fought for your right to vote, and for those who, regardless of your personal opinion of them, put their name forward.


Again, if you feel the candidates for election are subpar, then it is time for you to put your name on the ballot, stand on the door steps, and explain to the voters why you should be elected.

If you can associate one's expression on inadequate candidates to a slap in the face to veterans who fought, then I'm afraid we're miles apart on this notion.

and how would you answer the OPs question?
Quote:
I have no idea who to vote for lots of good candidates but nothing they offer benefits me in anyway. Hate for my vote not to count very confusing.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 5:10 pm 
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Joined: February 25th, 2013, 8:36 pm
Posts: 1526
EunoiaBeauregard wrote:
In Ontario & the prairies there is the option to vote "none of the above", sort of. You still go to the poll, but instead of submitting a ballot you let the returning officer know you're declining to vote and they make a note of it.

Here in PEI we don't have that option, so the best you can do is submit a blank vote. Rejected ballots are counted and reported, although there's no way to know whether someone nullified their ballot on purpose or by mistake. But I believe a blank vote speaks louder than no vote at all.

Blake asks a good question though. I don't know who listens to the message that declined / rejected ballots send. Once the election's over, whoever's in power carries on, business as usual. I think it would take a lot of protest votes to elicit electoral reform, but that's not a good enough reason to stay quiet. The alternative of voting for someone you don't support seems foolish to me.

Blank votes could work and send some type of message.

Now wouldn't that be an interesting Party promise......introduction of electoral reform.

On another related note, I'm also a believer in some sort of candidate training before one can run for office.


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 Post subject: Re: vote time
PostPosted: April 27th, 2015, 5:45 pm 
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Tourist

Joined: January 20th, 2015, 2:36 pm
Posts: 23
Gardiner wrote:

If you can associate one's expression on inadequate candidates to a slap in the face to veterans who fought, then I'm afraid we're miles apart on this notion.

and how would you answer the OPs question?
Quote:
I have no idea who to vote for lots of good candidates but nothing they offer benefits me in anyway. Hate for my vote not to count very confusing.

Quite simply it is you sir/madam who is way off base. To suggest to vote for no one is THE slap in the face, and a complete disgrace.

The answer of who to vote for lies in the first sentence "lot's of good candidates" You pick the candidate you feel will do the best job, and place your "x" beside their name. It is that simple.

Again, I say to you, if you feel there is no credible candidate then why is your name not on the ballot?


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