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What do you think of evidence of jurisdiction?
I think jurisdiction applies even without evidence? 60%  60%  [ 3 ]
I think jurisdiction applies only with evidence? 40%  40%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 5
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 Post subject: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 1:02 pm 
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Almost an Islander
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This youtube link is a recording of a call with a Saskatchewan bureaucrat. The man asks for evidence of jurisdiction, she says there isn't any and that she is proceeding with action against him without any evidence of jurisdiction. Is there any evidence that laws apply to people in a given area? Do the laws of the Government of Prince Edward Island apply to all people on PEI? Is there evidence of this? What is that evidence?

Without demonstrated jurisdiction the cops are indistinguishable from street thugs, and ought to be treated as such, so it seems like an important question.

Was this the same fight that Gandhi fought in India? British law said that British law applied in India, but in the end Gandhi pushed the British to show the brutal nature of British rule. British rule only appeared civilized so long as most people thought the British had jurisdiction despite a lack of evidence (or cowered to their brutality).

Likewise, the rule of the Government of Prince Edward Island appears civilized so long as people assume it has jurisdiction despite a lack of evidence (or cower to their brutality).

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 1:05 pm 
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PEI laws apply to all Islanders. If people don't like them they are welcome to relocate.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 1:36 pm 
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Blake McKinley wrote:
PEI laws apply to all Islanders.
Is this a fact for which you have evidence?
Blake McKinley wrote:
If people don't like them they are welcome to relocate.
Is this relevant to our discussion? I do not see a connection. Is this evidence of jurisdiction?

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 4:02 pm 
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Almost an Islander

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Here is a 200 page court decision that explains why your Freemen-on-the-Land ideologies are insane and lack any merit whatsoever

http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/20 ... qb571.html


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 4:03 pm 
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ashleyjohnston wrote:
Is there any evidence that laws apply to people in a given area? Do the laws of the Government of Prince Edward Island apply to all people on PEI? Is there evidence of this? What is that evidence?

Is there any evidence laws don't apply to all people on PEI?


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 5:36 pm 
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If the challenge to prove jurisdiction is allowed to be heard in a court, then the decision must be in favour of the law. Otherwise the court is not allowed to hear the case due to the simple fact that the court hasn't the jurisdiction. If the plaintiff brings the case to court they are automatically accepting the law of the land. Damned irony :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 6:32 pm 
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islander07 wrote:
Here is a 200 page court decision that explains why your Freemen-on-the-Land ideologies are insane and lack any merit whatsoever

http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/20 ... qb571.html
Section VI.a.4.d - 'Inherent Jurisdiction vs. OPCA Strategies and Concepts' seems like the best place to look, but I didn't see an answer to my question there. Can you cite something more specific?

How does a question get promoted to an ideology, sane or otherwise? We probably agree about the nature of Freemen-on-the-Land. In fact I have additional resentments: they make it that much harder to have a discussion like this since I must distance myself from them and their noise. Mind you, noise does not become signal when people start believing it. So isn't factual analysis a good way to separate signal from noise? What are the facts? What is the evidence that we can work from?

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 6:45 pm 
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craiger wrote:
ashleyjohnston wrote:
Is there any evidence that laws apply to people in a given area? Do the laws of the Government of Prince Edward Island apply to all people on PEI? Is there evidence of this? What is that evidence?

Is there any evidence laws don't apply to all people on PEI?
This apparent stalemate is settled by basic reason. The one making the positive claim has the responsibility to provide evidence. Or 'that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence'. That is the whole motivation behind the Flying Spaghetti Monster. 'Prove He isn't real!!'

When the Government of Prince Edward Island sends me letters and has armed men visit me to secure my compliance they are claiming jurisdiction, or acting like street thugs.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 7:14 pm 
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Or, you have broken the laws of this province, which, were made by people elected by the citizens of this province.

That is the only evidence you require.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 7:17 pm 
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Justin O'Brien wrote:
If the challenge to prove jurisdiction is allowed to be heard in a court, then the decision must be in favour of the law. Otherwise the court is not allowed to hear the case due to the simple fact that the court hasn't the jurisdiction.
So, if I am charged in PEI with breaking a Chinese law in Michigan then to bring this to the attention of the judge is to assume they have jurisdiction? There are matters of fact that must be settled to determine if there is a matter of law to be settled. Is he a 'judge' in a 'court' when deciding upon matters of fact is a matter of semantics.

Justin O'Brien wrote:
If the plaintiff brings the case to court they are automatically accepting the law of the land. Damned irony :lol:
As a plaintiff I would assume he would be accepting the authority of the court, or at least he is accepting the martial superiority of the courts loyal henchmen. Though any criminal, regulatory or taxation issue would not fall under that scenario.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 8:03 pm 
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screenname wrote:
Or, you have broken the laws of this province, which, were made by people elected by the citizens of this province.

That is the only evidence you require.
I will try to state the essence of your evidence since you seem to have mixed some extra stuff in there: The Government of Prince Edward Island designated people that could help in the law-making process. I will accept this as a fact. This fact alone fails to explain who is subject to those laws.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 12th, 2015, 6:25 am 
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ashleyjohnston wrote:
Blake McKinley wrote:
PEI laws apply to all Islanders.
Is this a fact for which you have evidence?
Blake McKinley wrote:
If people don't like them they are welcome to relocate.
Is this relevant to our discussion? I do not see a connection. Is this evidence of jurisdiction?



Yes. It is a fact. Go to any jail for your evidence. And yes, my comment is relevant. If you don't like the laws where you live you are free to go somewhere else where they don't have laws. I recommend Somalia.

You people use the same convoluted logic to get out of paying taxes. Too bad. We live in a society of rules that WE determined. We can use the power of the vote to get those rules changed in some cases. Without the rules there is no order.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 12th, 2015, 8:00 am 
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Almost an Islander
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Blake McKinley wrote:
ashleyjohnston wrote:
Blake McKinley wrote:
PEI laws apply to all Islanders.
Is this a fact for which you have evidence?

Blake McKinley wrote:
If people don't like them they are welcome to relocate.
Is this relevant to our discussion? I do not see a connection. Is this evidence of jurisdiction?
Yes. It is a fact. Go to any jail for your evidence.
And we can point to the Gulag for the power of the Russian secret police or North Korean prison camps as demonstrations of their power. Any thug with a bat can start punishing people for breaking arbitrary rules. We can leave the comparison there if you like.

Blake McKinley wrote:
And yes, my comment is relevant. If you don't like the laws where you live you are free to go somewhere else where they don't have laws. I recommend Somalia.
Or we can try to act like rational human beings who condemn violence without reason.

Blake McKinley wrote:
You people...
Really? :roll:

Blake McKinley wrote:
use the same convoluted logic to get out of paying taxes. Too bad. We live in a society of rules that WE determined. We can use the power of the vote to get those rules changed in some cases. Without the rules there is no order.
What are rules and order without reason? I am using the same logic that has been relied upon since Aristotle. What logic are you using?

To recap: Is there a line of evidence and reason that links laws of the Government of Prince Edward Island to me? Or are the police and Government of Prince Edward Island acting with the same arbitrary authority of any wild animal, thug, terrorist, henchman, warlord or dictator?

There is apparently a 200-page official court document about 'us people'. You would think if there were an answer it would be in there somewhere. I can't find it. Nobody else has pointed it out to me.

Democracy has been mentioned but the case has not been made clear how democracy means the laws reasonably apply to all Islanders.

Yes, I understand that these are not questions that are commonly asked. But they seem important enough to me to wonder why they are not discussed more openly and frequently.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 12th, 2015, 9:39 am 
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I might not be smart enough to understand the question as the answer seems too simple and obvious. If I remember correctly from the prep for citizenship test, there was a Constitution Act provinces agreed on as they formed the Union. As other provinces joined, they accepted that act. The act clearly lists which laws are provincial and which laws are within federal scope. Forming the Union and joining to it, hence accepting that Act, was democratic process. The laws passed since were also part of democratic process. Constitution Act, which was agreed upon by all provinces joining new union clearly gives right to provinces to enact and enforce laws which apply to "any person or persons... on its territory", so not just "Islanders" or "residents".


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 12th, 2015, 10:27 am 
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ashleyjohnston wrote:
So, if I am charged in PEI with breaking a Chinese law in Michigan then to bring this to the attention of the judge is to assume they have jurisdiction?


How would that happen?


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 12th, 2015, 10:30 am 
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ashleyjohnston wrote:
British law said that British law applied in India...


Until India became independent.

I submit that you need to secede.

Mind you, you may have a harder time finding diplomatic relations than North Korea :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 12th, 2015, 12:43 pm 
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sasha wrote:
I might not be smart enough to understand the question as the answer seems too simple and obvious.
By the rest of your response I will agree that you don't understand the question. I cant comment on your abilities but I appreciate your humility. Elsewhere we can talk about all of the things I don't understand.

sasha wrote:
If I remember correctly from the prep for citizenship test, there was a Constitution Act provinces agreed on as they formed the Union. As other provinces joined, they accepted that act. The act clearly lists which laws are provincial and which laws are within federal scope. Forming the Union and joining to it, hence accepting that Act, was democratic process. The laws passed since were also part of democratic process. Constitution Act, which was agreed upon by all provinces joining new union clearly gives right to provinces to enact and enforce laws which apply to "any person or persons... on its territory", so not just "Islanders" or "residents".
To sum this portion:
Quote:
Governments of provinces asked people for input about what agreements to have with other governments. This 'clearly' allows those governments to enforce those rules on 'people on its territory'.

It is that 'clearly' part that people tend to gloss over. These governments are taking democratic input, creating relationships with each other and making laws. Where is the explanation about why these laws apply to people on Prince Edward Island? My question is exactly about the 'clearly' part.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 12th, 2015, 1:20 pm 
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alandla wrote:
ashleyjohnston wrote:
So, if I am charged in PEI with breaking a Chinese law in Michigan then to bring this to the attention of the judge is to assume they have jurisdiction?
How would that happen?
Any arbitrary authority could try it.
alandla wrote:
ashleyjohnston wrote:
British law said that British law applied in India...
Until India became independent.

I submit that you need to secede.

Mind you, you may have a harder time finding diplomatic relations than North Korea :lol:
I have no issue with secession. I welcome the challenges of freedom.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 12th, 2015, 10:48 pm 
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If a tree falls in the forest..............
That is the kind of question you are asking. There is really no point in debating it, or way to debate it.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there evidence that laws apply to residents?
PostPosted: May 13th, 2015, 7:39 am 
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