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Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
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 Post subject: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 1st, 2014, 10:03 pm 
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True Islander

Joined: November 26th, 2006, 12:15 am
Posts: 3248
This is a petition.please sign.

Quote:
Today, the Harper Conservatives had their first chance to make major changes to Canada’s health care since getting a majority government, and they launched a brutal sneak attack.

They just sabotaged the Health Accord that protects equal care for all Canadians, and they’re cutting your public health funding by $36 billion over the next 10 years.1 2

It’s the start of Harper’s long-term plan to destroy our public health care system, and we have to stop it.

The Canada Health Accord is the deal between the federal government and the provinces that ensures proper funding, equal access, and high standards for the health care we all rely on.3

Prime Minister Harper has always wanted to replace public care with an American-style for-profit system. He made his career by leading the National Citizen’s Coalition, an organization founded by a wealthy insurance broker determined to destroy Canada’s medicare.4

But here’s the thing – he knows that 94% of Canadians, including most conservatives, support national public health care.5

That’s why he’s trying to sabotage the system quietly by cutting $36 billion over 10 years and breaking the pact that all Canadians should get equal care, no matter what province you live in.6

By pulling out of the agreement, cutting billions in transfers, and letting standards fall across the country, Prime Minister Harper will undermine our public health system.

If he succeeds, cash-starved provinces will face intense pressure to let America’s titanic for-profit companies buy into our system and give us worse care for higher prices.7

Harper knows that if Canadians learn about this, he could lose the next election. We need to raise the alarm, right now, before the worst damage is done to force this government to make a new deal.

Please join thousands and send a message to your Member of Parliament, Prime Minister Harper, and Health Minister Rona Ambrose: Stop the sabotage! Defend Canada’s public health care now. – Then share this with everyone.
Sources:

Medicare defenders set to protest as Health Accord expires http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/hea ... e17729509/
Federal health cuts will cost provinces $36 billion: premiers http://healthcoalition.ca/wp-content/pl ... etter=37#1
Canadian Health Coalition Resource Page on the Health Accord http://healthcoalition.ca/main/issues/health-accord/
Dr. Harper’s new and improved medicare http://murraydobbin.ca/2011/04/16/dr-ha ... -medicare/
Support for public health care soars: 94% of Canadians – including Conservatives – choose public over for-profit solutions http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/884001/ ... -solutions
Tories deliver a hollow boast on health care spending http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/hea ... e11024546/
Assessment of the fiscal impact of current federal fiscal proposals http://www.gov.pe.ca/photos/original/ECO_COFHFX2ENG.pdf
http://www.leadnow.ca/defend-health-care/

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“Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking...” Leo Tolstoy


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 1st, 2014, 11:05 pm 
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True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
FYI, Harper isn't cutting any money from health care.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 7:36 am 
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Member

Joined: October 20th, 2011, 12:15 pm
Posts: 1493
craiger wrote:
FYI, Harper isn't cutting any money from health care.



Awww Craiger, don't ruin her fun by putting the truth out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 8:50 am 
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True Islander

Joined: November 26th, 2006, 12:15 am
Posts: 3248
craiger wrote:
FYI, Harper isn't cutting any money from health care.

So why would lead now put out a petition on false information? Would that not destroy their credibility?

_________________
“Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking...” Leo Tolstoy


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 8:12 pm 
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True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
saherbal wrote:
craiger wrote:
FYI, Harper isn't cutting any money from health care.

So why would lead now put out a petition on false information? Would that not destroy their credibility?

There are definitely arguments to be made about the expiry of the health accord and health care funding in Canada but to say health care is being cut and raise fears about privatization at this point is way too early. Health care funding will increase by 6% a year until 2016-17 and then at least 3% each year after that.

Saying Harper's long-term plan is to destroy public health care and turn it into some bastardized version of the American system is just alarmist rhetoric. Groups like lead now are just trying to get people on their side by fudging the facts. And these types of releases cause them to lose credibility with me, although I had never heard of them before.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 8:47 pm 
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Member

Joined: September 28th, 2007, 12:45 pm
Posts: 1049
What Harper's change to the rate of growth of health care funding will do is slowly but surely lead to a reduced Federal share of the costs, which the existing accord was meant in good part to restore. While a continuation of 6% increases might not have been needed to maintain the federal share, 3% will not cut it, in particular as we're facing a rising rate of health care costs over the next decade or so as the baby boomers age.
As the Parliamentary Budget Office has reported, this is a good part of what has put the federal government's budgetary situation squarely into the sustainable zone for the future. Unfortunately, as they also report, it has rendered most province's fiscal prospects for the future unsuatainable.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2014, 8:57 am 
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Junior Member

Joined: July 4th, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 672
Public health care is due for some sabotaging. Free access for all is great, but there should also be some room left for people willing to pay for it so they can get proper service.

I would like to see a model where emergency, hospital and walk-in clinics are free, but "premium" service, like personal family doctor, cost money.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2014, 7:27 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
sasha wrote:
Public health care is due for some sabotaging. Free access for all is great, but there should also be some room left for people willing to pay for it so they can get proper service.

I would like to see a model where emergency, hospital and walk-in clinics are free, but "premium" service, like personal family doctor, cost money.

If you allow people to start paying for "proper service" than those that afford it will be getting service while those who can't afford it will have to go without. That would be the beginning of the end for public health care.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2014, 9:18 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: July 4th, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 672
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
Public health care is due for some sabotaging. Free access for all is great, but there should also be some room left for people willing to pay for it so they can get proper service.

I would like to see a model where emergency, hospital and walk-in clinics are free, but "premium" service, like personal family doctor, cost money.

If you allow people to start paying for "proper service" than those that afford it will be getting service while those who can't afford it will have to go without.


Which hopefully would allow my family access to family doctor.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2014, 11:43 pm 
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Member
User avatar

Joined: April 12th, 2010, 7:29 am
Posts: 2240
Sustainability is the most important ‘health care’ issue for the future. Costs cannot continue to increase at current rates indefinitely. It would ease the burden on the system if the affluent were permitted, or even required, to pay for some services.

In any case, the 'rationing' issue will have to be faced eventually.

Up until the ’50s /‘60s health care consisted mainly of setting broken bones, stitching up injuries, removing defective parts, and prescribing medicines for infections and other illnesses.

Then along came Christian Barnard and the world changed. He demonstrated that ‘part replacement’ for humans was possible, and that ‘death prevention’, which previously had been a goal more striven for than realized, was going to become a much bigger component of ‘health care’. The flood of expensive new technology and drugs that followed in the next few decades created a medical dilemma – it is now possible to do more to prolong a patient’s life than society can afford.

Death has become a process and not an event. Any day now, if enough medical resources are expended, it will be possible to keep a person alive indefinitely.

The big question will be – which persons? And who will decide? It’s obvious that all of us cannot have everlasting life.

Ed

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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 4th, 2014, 6:04 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
Public health care is due for some sabotaging. Free access for all is great, but there should also be some room left for people willing to pay for it so they can get proper service.

I would like to see a model where emergency, hospital and walk-in clinics are free, but "premium" service, like personal family doctor, cost money.

If you allow people to start paying for "proper service" than those that afford it will be getting service while those who can't afford it will have to go without.


Which hopefully would allow my family access to family doctor.

That's great that you have the money to pay for a doctor. I guess the poor would just have to do without in your scenario.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 4th, 2014, 6:28 pm 
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Member
User avatar

Joined: April 12th, 2010, 7:29 am
Posts: 2240
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
Public health care is due for some sabotaging. Free access for all is great, but there should also be some room left for people willing to pay for it so they can get proper service.

I would like to see a model where emergency, hospital and walk-in clinics are free, but "premium" service, like personal family doctor, cost money.

If you allow people to start paying for "proper service" than those that afford it will be getting service while those who can't afford it will have to go without.


Which hopefully would allow my family access to family doctor.

That's great that you have the money to pay for a doctor. I guess the poor would just have to do without in your scenario.

Do without? Before socialized health, when we all paid individually for our care, the poor didn't do without.

Why wouldn't they get their health care the same way they now get housing, clothing, and food?

Ed

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Searching for truth with an open mind is more rewarding than belief, which by definition is unquestioning.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 4th, 2014, 6:45 pm 
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True Islander

Joined: December 5th, 2008, 9:54 pm
Posts: 4795
Ex-racer wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
Public health care is due for some sabotaging. Free access for all is great, but there should also be some room left for people willing to pay for it so they can get proper service.

I would like to see a model where emergency, hospital and walk-in clinics are free, but "premium" service, like personal family doctor, cost money.

If you allow people to start paying for "proper service" than those that afford it will be getting service while those who can't afford it will have to go without.


Which hopefully would allow my family access to family doctor.

That's great that you have the money to pay for a doctor. I guess the poor would just have to do without in your scenario.

Do without? Before socialized health, when we all paid individually for our care, the poor didn't do without.

Why wouldn't they get their health care the same way they now get housing, clothing, and food?

Ed


What would this be like on seniors on a fixed income?
Would they be getting knees and hips replaced? What about a bypass? Or cataracts?
I don't believe a bank would be lending them the money for the surgery, so that would leave it up to their children to pay if they had any.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 4th, 2014, 9:19 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: July 4th, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 672
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
Public health care is due for some sabotaging. Free access for all is great, but there should also be some room left for people willing to pay for it so they can get proper service.

I would like to see a model where emergency, hospital and walk-in clinics are free, but "premium" service, like personal family doctor, cost money.

If you allow people to start paying for "proper service" than those that afford it will be getting service while those who can't afford it will have to go without.


Which hopefully would allow my family access to family doctor.

That's great that you have the money to pay for a doctor. I guess the poor would just have to do without in your scenario.


I think it was clear that some, if not the most of the care would stay free. I was just referring to "premium" services like family doctor.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 4th, 2014, 10:13 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
Public health care is due for some sabotaging. Free access for all is great, but there should also be some room left for people willing to pay for it so they can get proper service.

I would like to see a model where emergency, hospital and walk-in clinics are free, but "premium" service, like personal family doctor, cost money.

If you allow people to start paying for "proper service" than those that afford it will be getting service while those who can't afford it will have to go without.


Which hopefully would allow my family access to family doctor.

That's great that you have the money to pay for a doctor. I guess the poor would just have to do without in your scenario.


I think it was clear that some, if not the most of the care would stay free. I was just referring to "premium" services like family doctor.

I don't understand why you consider a family doctor a premium service. Is it because there is a shortage of them on PEI?

And my concern is that if you introduce fees, some people will benefit more from health care than others and you'll eventually have a two tier system.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 10:13 am 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: July 4th, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 672
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
Public health care is due for some sabotaging. Free access for all is great, but there should also be some room left for people willing to pay for it so they can get proper service.

I would like to see a model where emergency, hospital and walk-in clinics are free, but "premium" service, like personal family doctor, cost money.

If you allow people to start paying for "proper service" than those that afford it will be getting service while those who can't afford it will have to go without.


Which hopefully would allow my family access to family doctor.

That's great that you have the money to pay for a doctor. I guess the poor would just have to do without in your scenario.


I think it was clear that some, if not the most of the care would stay free. I was just referring to "premium" services like family doctor.

I don't understand why you consider a family doctor a premium service. Is it because there is a shortage of them on PEI?


Family doctor is not necessary service - mostly it is convenience and it is expensive convenience. On the Island, where tech is a bit behind times, and there is no standardized and centralized patient record keeping system, it is maybe a bit more.

craiger wrote:
And my concern is that if you introduce fees, some people will benefit more from health care than others and you'll eventually have a two tier system.

There is already tiered system in place and some benefit more than others. I just disagree with the way those tiers are setup.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 11:14 am 
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True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
craiger wrote:
And my concern is that if you introduce fees, some people will benefit more from health care than others and you'll eventually have a two tier system.

There is already tiered system in place and some benefit more than others. I just disagree with the way those tiers are setup.[/quote]
What is the tiered system already in place? And who benefits more under it now?


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 11:35 am 
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True Islander
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Joined: May 4th, 2008, 2:13 am
Posts: 6461
Yes more solid info please.

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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 12:01 pm 
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Junior Member

Joined: July 4th, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 672
craiger wrote:
What is the tiered system already in place? And who benefits more under it now?

I guess people on "family doctor waiting list" are on the losing end in the current system. People on the that list who would be willing to pay for service but are not allowed, are double losers. People on the waiting list, not being allowed to pay for themselves, but been forced to pay for additional health insurance and benefits for public workers are triple losers.

Simple adjustment that would allow to pay for the service in a same way we are expected to pay for everything else would make things a little bit more fair.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 1:28 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
What is the tiered system already in place? And who benefits more under it now?

I guess people on "family doctor waiting list" are on the losing end in the current system. People on the that list who would be willing to pay for service but are not allowed, are double losers. People on the waiting list, not being allowed to pay for themselves, but been forced to pay for additional health insurance and benefits for public workers are triple losers.

If nothing changed other than people started paying for seeing a family doctor, there would just be new people on the losing end, those who can't afford to pay. There would still be a shortage of doctors but some folks would no longer be able to see a doctor so people with the extra income to pay a doctor would take their spot.

And what is the relevance of government employees having health insurance plans? This is a benefit many employers provide, not just in the public sector. That's not preventing people from having access to a family doctor.

sasha wrote:
Simple adjustment that would allow to pay for the service in a same way we are expected to pay for everything else would make things a little bit more fair.

It doesn't make anything fair. In fact, it makes it inherently unfair because people who can't afford to pay would no longer have access to a family doctor.


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