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Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 1:41 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: July 4th, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 672
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
What is the tiered system already in place? And who benefits more under it now?

I guess people on "family doctor waiting list" are on the losing end in the current system. People on the that list who would be willing to pay for service but are not allowed, are double losers. People on the waiting list, not being allowed to pay for themselves, but been forced to pay for additional health insurance and benefits for public workers are triple losers.

If nothing changed other than people started paying for seeing a family doctor, there would just be new people on the losing end, those who can't afford to pay. There would still be a shortage of doctors but some folks would no longer be able to see a doctor so people with the extra income to pay a doctor would take their spot.

Sounds fair to me.

craiger wrote:
And what is the relevance of government employees having health insurance plans? This is a benefit many employers provide, not just in the public sector. That's not preventing people from having access to a family doctor.

I should not have muddied waters with that statement. It is just similar to family doctor issue from my perspective as it is another case on my paying, with tax money, for someone else to have something before I am allowed to pay for that same thing for me. As as public sector worker you do not have to invest any money in my Blue Cross health care plan. As private worker, I have to invest in additional health/eye/medical benefits for public sector worker.

craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
Simple adjustment that would allow to pay for the service in a same way we are expected to pay for everything else would make things a little bit more fair.

It doesn't make anything fair. In fact, it makes it inherently unfair because people who can't afford to pay would no longer have access to a family doctor.


Family doctor is not main health care option - it is convenience. Some people might not be able to afford it and there is nothing wrong with it. It is definitely less fair that people who could afford it still have to pay for it but cannot get access to that service.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 1:53 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: April 12th, 2010, 7:29 am
Posts: 2240
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
Simple adjustment that would allow to pay for the service in a same way we are expected to pay for everything else would make things a little bit more fair.

It doesn't make anything fair. In fact, it makes it inherently unfair because people who can't afford to pay would no longer have access to a family doctor.

Social Services now pay for equally important needs of 'poor' people, such as food, clothing, housing, and medical/dental items not covered by 'Medicare'.

Why do you think SS wouldn't pay for family doctor visits, if in fact there was a fee?

Ed

_________________
Searching for truth with an open mind is more rewarding than belief, which by definition is unquestioning.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 2:19 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: April 10th, 2006, 12:57 pm
Posts: 14266
Location: Charlottetown
Health care is in jeopardy if it continues the way it is going cost wise. We cant keep paying , and changes are going to have to be made. If memory serves, abouth alf of our budget goes to healthcare now ( correct me if wrong, going from memory).

I would suggest moderate billing changes be made, and am ok with some form of fee for service.

One are that could be addressed is when you visit your family dr. Perhaps a modest 10 or 15.00 visit fee, which would be tied to your income level, so low income earners are not affected.

Another area is outpatients. Far too many people are visiting outaptients when there is no reason for it. I feel at the top of every form, there should be 3 boxes , for the attending dr to check, depending on who should pay.
medicare/wcb/ and"bill". if you fall and break your arm, obviously medicare. If you break it at work , obviously wcb, if y ou have the sniffels and go to er, you should be billed fully, as there are clinics avail.

even little things like this would help offset dramaticly rising costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 3:22 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
Ex-racer wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
Simple adjustment that would allow to pay for the service in a same way we are expected to pay for everything else would make things a little bit more fair.

It doesn't make anything fair. In fact, it makes it inherently unfair because people who can't afford to pay would no longer have access to a family doctor.

Social Services now pay for equally important needs of 'poor' people, such as food, clothing, housing, and medical/dental items not covered by 'Medicare'.

Why do you think SS wouldn't pay for family doctor visits, if in fact there was a fee?

Ed

What about those who don't qualify for SS but don't have the extra income needed to pay for a family doctor?

Why do you think so many people rely on food banks, charitable groups and their community for help. Because SS is so generous?


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 3:29 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
What is the tiered system already in place? And who benefits more under it now?

I guess people on "family doctor waiting list" are on the losing end in the current system. People on the that list who would be willing to pay for service but are not allowed, are double losers. People on the waiting list, not being allowed to pay for themselves, but been forced to pay for additional health insurance and benefits for public workers are triple losers.

If nothing changed other than people started paying for seeing a family doctor, there would just be new people on the losing end, those who can't afford to pay. There would still be a shortage of doctors but some folks would no longer be able to see a doctor so people with the extra income to pay a doctor would take their spot.

Sounds fair to me.

craiger wrote:
And what is the relevance of government employees having health insurance plans? This is a benefit many employers provide, not just in the public sector. That's not preventing people from having access to a family doctor.

I should not have muddied waters with that statement. It is just similar to family doctor issue from my perspective as it is another case on my paying, with tax money, for someone else to have something before I am allowed to pay for that same thing for me. As as public sector worker you do not have to invest any money in my Blue Cross health care plan. As private worker, I have to invest in additional health/eye/medical benefits for public sector worker.

Your taxes go to all kinds of things that you'll never personally use or benefit from. Not to mention that all kinds of private sector companies benefit from government funded programs and services such as wage subsidies, loan interest loans, etc. Not to mention all of the indirect benefits from government investment in things like infrastructure, transportation, health care, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 6:47 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: July 4th, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 672
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
What is the tiered system already in place? And who benefits more under it now?

I guess people on "family doctor waiting list" are on the losing end in the current system. People on the that list who would be willing to pay for service but are not allowed, are double losers. People on the waiting list, not being allowed to pay for themselves, but been forced to pay for additional health insurance and benefits for public workers are triple losers.

If nothing changed other than people started paying for seeing a family doctor, there would just be new people on the losing end, those who can't afford to pay. There would still be a shortage of doctors but some folks would no longer be able to see a doctor so people with the extra income to pay a doctor would take their spot.

Sounds fair to me.

craiger wrote:
And what is the relevance of government employees having health insurance plans? This is a benefit many employers provide, not just in the public sector. That's not preventing people from having access to a family doctor.

I should not have muddied waters with that statement. It is just similar to family doctor issue from my perspective as it is another case on my paying, with tax money, for someone else to have something before I am allowed to pay for that same thing for me. As as public sector worker you do not have to invest any money in my Blue Cross health care plan. As private worker, I have to invest in additional health/eye/medical benefits for public sector worker.

Your taxes go to all kinds of things that you'll never personally use or benefit from. Not to mention that all kinds of private sector companies benefit from government funded programs and services such as wage subsidies, loan interest loans, etc. Not to mention all of the indirect benefits from government investment in things like infrastructure, transportation, health care, etc.


None of your statements here apply to discussion at hand.

I have no problem at all paying taxes for some things I do not benefit from - that is how things are. I have problem paying for service I do not receive when I need it - in this case I cannot even pay more so that I do get it.

As for companies benefiting from government - money government has is from those companies. On its own government generates no money. We would not need government at all if we would not benefit from it in some way.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 8:24 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: November 12th, 2004, 8:55 am
Posts: 2160
Location: Islander
Quote:
Family doctor is not main health care option - it is convenience. Some people might not be able to afford it and there is nothing wrong with it. It is definitely less fair that people who could afford it still have to pay for it but cannot get access to that service.


I think the flaw in the argument is that you can still get access to it, although it may not be as timely as you like.

The question becomes, what kind of a society do we want to live in, one where convenience for the wealthy trumps all others or one where everyone can have access to good healthcare but some may have to wait.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Sabotage Our Public Health Care
PostPosted: April 5th, 2014, 11:56 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: December 5th, 2008, 9:54 pm
Posts: 4795
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
sasha wrote:
craiger wrote:
What is the tiered system already in place? And who benefits more under it now?

I guess people on "family doctor waiting list" are on the losing end in the current system. People on the that list who would be willing to pay for service but are not allowed, are double losers. People on the waiting list, not being allowed to pay for themselves, but been forced to pay for additional health insurance and benefits for public workers are triple losers.

If nothing changed other than people started paying for seeing a family doctor, there would just be new people on the losing end, those who can't afford to pay. There would still be a shortage of doctors but some folks would no longer be able to see a doctor so people with the extra income to pay a doctor would take their spot.

Sounds fair to me.

craiger wrote:
And what is the relevance of government employees having health insurance plans? This is a benefit many employers provide, not just in the public sector. That's not preventing people from having access to a family doctor.

I should not have muddied waters with that statement. It is just similar to family doctor issue from my perspective as it is another case on my paying, with tax money, for someone else to have something before I am allowed to pay for that same thing for me. As as public sector worker you do not have to invest any money in my Blue Cross health care plan. As private worker, I have to invest in additional health/eye/medical benefits for public sector worker.

Your taxes go to all kinds of things that you'll never personally use or benefit from. Not to mention that all kinds of private sector companies benefit from government funded programs and services such as wage subsidies, loan interest loans, etc. Not to mention all of the indirect benefits from government investment in things like infrastructure, transportation, health care, etc.


None of your statements here apply to discussion at hand.

I have no problem at all paying taxes for some things I do not benefit from - that is how things are. I have problem paying for service I do not receive when I need it - in this case I cannot even pay more so that I do get it.

As for companies benefiting from government - money government has is from those companies. On its own government generates no money. We would not need government at all if we would not benefit from it in some way.


Maybe you are not wealthy enough then if you can not buy better health services.
Big fish in a little pond but in reality a small fish in a really big pond. :shock:


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