PEIinfo Logo
  Top Banner

Listings Coming Soon
 
Home
* FAQ
* Register

* Login 

Reset Password
Resend Activation Email

RSS Feed (New Posts)
RSS Feed (Replies)

Search
Lunch Specials

All Day Special Jaeuck(Pork & Rice) at Seoul Food Restaurant(Cafe) for $9.87 [Remind Me]

All Day Special Hot Hamburger at Brits Fish and Chips for $9.95 [Remind Me]

All Day Special Chicken bokkeum at Seoul Food Restaurant(Cafe) for $10.98 [Remind Me]

All Day Special Dolsot Bibimbap at Seoul Food Restaurant(Cafe) for $11.98 [Remind Me]

Add your restaurant's special!
Follow @WhatsOnSpecial!
Island Weather [Customize]
Sponsor
Island Webcam [Customize]
Island Radio
  Listen to CBC 96.1 FM
Windows M. Player
Listen to Island Radio
Winamp
Listen to K-Rock
Windows M. Player
Listen to Ocean 100
Windows M. Player

All times are UTC - 4 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: The referendum in Crimea
PostPosted: March 16th, 2014, 8:30 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: April 12th, 2010, 7:29 am
Posts: 2240
When I hear Western presidents and prime ministers expressing their alarm about the referendum scheduled to be held today in Crimea - where the people will be given a chance to decide on their future political affiliation - while at the same time approving and supporting the recent ouster of the elected government of Ukraine in a ‘coup’ driven by violent street demonstrations, I can’t help thinking of Humpty Dumpty in Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking-Glass –1872.

Ed

Quote:
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."


Here's Humpty, er, President Obama:-
“I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, find that the actions and policies of persons — including persons who have asserted governmental authority in the Crimean region without the authorization of the Government of Ukraine — that undermine democratic processes and institutions in Ukraine; threaten its peace, security, stability, sovereignty, and territorial integrity; and contribute to the misappropriation of its assets, constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States, and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat. I hereby order” - , etc, etc.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off ... -situation

_________________
Searching for truth with an open mind is more rewarding than belief, which by definition is unquestioning.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: The referendum in Crimea
PostPosted: March 16th, 2014, 9:57 am 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: December 5th, 2008, 9:54 pm
Posts: 4795
Obama will recognize it if it comes out in his favor and if it does not it will be ignored as fixed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The referendum in Crimea
PostPosted: March 16th, 2014, 9:21 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: November 26th, 2006, 12:15 am
Posts: 3248
Well they went with Russia ,no wonder 60% of Russians live there and it's happens to be a base there for the Russian Black fleet.

Seems Ukraine and Crimea has been brewing since 2009 according to Wiki leaks.
Quote:
Wednesday, 16 September 2009, 07:34
S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 04 PARIS 001254
NOFORN
SIPDIS
EO 12958 DECL: 09/16/2018
TAGS PREL, PARM, KNNP, BH">BH, SM, MK, GR">GR, FR">FR
SUBJECT: A/S GORDON'S MEETINGS WITH POLICY-MAKERS IN PARIS:
NATO'S ENLARGEMENT AND STRATEGIC CONCEPT
Levitte agreed and added that French President Sarkozy was "convinced" that Ukraine would one day be a member of NATO, but that there was no point in rushing the process and antagonizing Russia, particularly if the Ukrainian public was largely against membership.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/225319

So has the US beeing working on this since 2009?

_________________
“Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking...” Leo Tolstoy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The referendum in Crimea
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 7:24 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: April 12th, 2010, 7:29 am
Posts: 2240
Memo to Prime Minister Harper - Don't go. It's none of our business. Get back onto the right side of history while you still can.

And explain this to me - when did democracy change ? I must have missed it.

When did a secret ballot vote by the people become undemocratic, and when did government change by street demonstration become acceptable democracy?

Ed

Harper to visit Ukraine next week; first G7 leader to announce such plans Kathryn Blaze Carlson
Ottawa — The Globe and Mail
Mar. 14 2014, 4:42 PM EDT


Prime Minister Stephen Harper will travel to Ukraine next week to meet with Kiev’s post-revolutionary government, becoming the first G7 leader to announce such plans since the months-long crisis escalated into the worst confrontation between the West and Russia since the Cold War.

Mr. Harper will meet Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk on March 22 to “discuss the evolving situation there and how Canada can, along with its allies, continue to provide support,” the Prime Minister’s Office said in a statement on Friday.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e17500830/

_________________
Searching for truth with an open mind is more rewarding than belief, which by definition is unquestioning.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: The referendum in Crimea
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 2:11 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: November 26th, 2006, 12:15 am
Posts: 3248
This might give you some perspective on that situation from the US point of view.
Quote:
Q: At what moment, in your point of view, from the view of the United States did Yanukovych lose his legitimacy? Because in many countries, journalists are killed, activists are abducted, but all countries still recognize the leaders of these countries as legitimate.

A: When he abandoned his position and he abandoned this country. At a moment of political crisis when the country was looking to him to fulfill his obligations he abandoned his position, abandoned his obligation under the February 21st agreement and then the wheel of democracy turned on in the Rada which through constitutional measures, in conformance with the rules, declared Yanukovych to be in default.

Q: But I am a former history teacher, Mr. Ambassador, and I know one such case. In 1968, President De Gaulle left the country during the crisis. He disappeared for two days and then showed up at the location of the Baden Second Armored Division. But no one removed his status or said that he was illegitimate. President Johnson didn’t say he was an illegitimate leader. You must agree your explanation isn’t very clear.

A: My explanation reflects the will of the Ukrainian people. It’s important that the votes that took place in the Rada to affirm the 2004 Constitution, to declare Yanukovych absent and to approve the new government were approved by a massive majority of the Rada. To include all of the Opposition part but also a large part of the Party of Regions. It was very clear to those of us who lived through the dramatic events 21, 22, 23 February the entire Party of Regions abandoned President Yanukovych. The Party put out a public statement on Sunday the 23rd declaring Yanukovych a traitor.

Q: My next question: at the press conference today you stated that there are Federal Bureau of Investigation agents in Ukraine who are helping to investigate the corruption of the Yanukovych family. But Mr. Ambassador, why have these facts been revealed only after Yanukovych fled? Why now, when the president is overthrown? Why not when the president was in power?

A: We have a long record of bilateral cooperation with Ukraine on issues of corruption. Including in particular, the case of former Prime Minister Lazarenko. Who was convicted and served jail time in the United States. Obviously there is much that has become public after Yanukovych’ s departure because of the way in which he left the country. There was huge amounts of capital flight and smuggling of money in the last weeks of his tenure. You have the example of Mr. Kurchenko whose company was very close to the Yanukovych family. His corporate offices were left empty with the hard drives ripped out of the computers. But Ukraine has good investigative journalists who found several bags of trash at that office which may provide evidence of corruption. Likewise, Ukrainian journalists have surfaced large volumes of documentation from Mezhehirya. So, our role is to support the investigation that Ukraine’s own Prosecutor General is undertaking and that investigation in turn is benefiting from the work of Ukraine’s investigative journalists.


Nice to know the US can speak on behalf of ALL Ukrainian people.

Quote:
Q: But I think you’ve talked with Mrs. Ashton and Mr. Paet, keeping in mind that in their conversation, Mr. Paet reportedly said that it’s possible that the snipers were sent by someone from the opposition. Have you discussed this with your colleagues?

A: There is nobody in Kyiv who believes that there was any kind of Opposition involvement in that shooting and there are many videos on You Tube which indicate that these were military style, trained snipers. But it needs a serious, professional investigation.


The resources
Quote:
Q: Well, this used to be the Russian role, if I correctly understand the position of President Putin. He always said that Russia was the window to Europe for Asia and vice versa. So you’re stealing this role from Putin?

A: Over the long term it’s the economic issues here that will be fundamental. Ukraine is not a poor country. It has tremendous natural resources. But it has been poorly governed and bad policies that its economic resources have not been leveraged.


And finally new crooks out of the old crooks = new Gov.
Quote:
Q: Mr. Ambassador, new people have entered the government. But as it turned out, these are not new people. Mr. Yatsenyuk, who will meet President Obama, was the Economic Minister, the speaker of Parliament and the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Ms. Tymoshenko was Prime Minister and will probably be Prime Minister again, maybe. These are not new people. These are people who you’ve criticized. Wherein lies your hope with this new transitional government?

A: We will do everything we can to support the Ukrainian people. And as I said in the press conference, we will support whatever president emerges from a democratic election. It’s clear….

http://ukraine.usembassy.gov/speeches/amb-ekho-moskvy.html

It is said by a few Ukrainians 1 lady in the New Gov. was actually let out of jail for corruption and is back in office. lol

_________________
“Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking...” Leo Tolstoy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The referendum in Crimea
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 2:48 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: September 20th, 2011, 8:18 pm
Posts: 4181
saherbal wrote:
This might give you some perspective on that situation from the US point of view.
Quote:
Q: At what moment, in your point of view, from the view of the United States did Yanukovych lose his legitimacy? Because in many countries, journalists are killed, activists are abducted, but all countries still recognize the leaders of these countries as legitimate.

A: When he abandoned his position and he abandoned this country. At a moment of political crisis when the country was looking to him to fulfill his obligations he abandoned his position, abandoned his obligation under the February 21st agreement and then the wheel of democracy turned on in the Rada which through constitutional measures, in conformance with the rules, declared Yanukovych to be in default.

Q: But I am a former history teacher, Mr. Ambassador, and I know one such case. In 1968, President De Gaulle left the country during the crisis. He disappeared for two days and then showed up at the location of the Baden Second Armored Division. But no one removed his status or said that he was illegitimate. President Johnson didn’t say he was an illegitimate leader. You must agree your explanation isn’t very clear.

A: My explanation reflects the will of the Ukrainian people. It’s important that the votes that took place in the Rada to affirm the 2004 Constitution, to declare Yanukovych absent and to approve the new government were approved by a massive majority of the Rada. To include all of the Opposition part but also a large part of the Party of Regions. It was very clear to those of us who lived through the dramatic events 21, 22, 23 February the entire Party of Regions abandoned President Yanukovych. The Party put out a public statement on Sunday the 23rd declaring Yanukovych a traitor.

Q: My next question: at the press conference today you stated that there are Federal Bureau of Investigation agents in Ukraine who are helping to investigate the corruption of the Yanukovych family. But Mr. Ambassador, why have these facts been revealed only after Yanukovych fled? Why now, when the president is overthrown? Why not when the president was in power?

A: We have a long record of bilateral cooperation with Ukraine on issues of corruption. Including in particular, the case of former Prime Minister Lazarenko. Who was convicted and served jail time in the United States. Obviously there is much that has become public after Yanukovych’ s departure because of the way in which he left the country. There was huge amounts of capital flight and smuggling of money in the last weeks of his tenure. You have the example of Mr. Kurchenko whose company was very close to the Yanukovych family. His corporate offices were left empty with the hard drives ripped out of the computers. But Ukraine has good investigative journalists who found several bags of trash at that office which may provide evidence of corruption. Likewise, Ukrainian journalists have surfaced large volumes of documentation from Mezhehirya. So, our role is to support the investigation that Ukraine’s own Prosecutor General is undertaking and that investigation in turn is benefiting from the work of Ukraine’s investigative journalists.


Nice to know the US can speak on behalf of ALL Ukrainian people.

Quote:
Q: But I think you’ve talked with Mrs. Ashton and Mr. Paet, keeping in mind that in their conversation, Mr. Paet reportedly said that it’s possible that the snipers were sent by someone from the opposition. Have you discussed this with your colleagues?

A: There is nobody in Kyiv who believes that there was any kind of Opposition involvement in that shooting and there are many videos on You Tube which indicate that these were military style, trained snipers. But it needs a serious, professional investigation.


The resources
Quote:
Q: Well, this used to be the Russian role, if I correctly understand the position of President Putin. He always said that Russia was the window to Europe for Asia and vice versa. So you’re stealing this role from Putin?

A: Over the long term it’s the economic issues here that will be fundamental. Ukraine is not a poor country. It has tremendous natural resources. But it has been poorly governed and bad policies that its economic resources have not been leveraged.


And finally new crooks out of the old crooks = new Gov.
Quote:
Q: Mr. Ambassador, new people have entered the government. But as it turned out, these are not new people. Mr. Yatsenyuk, who will meet President Obama, was the Economic Minister, the speaker of Parliament and the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Ms. Tymoshenko was Prime Minister and will probably be Prime Minister again, maybe. These are not new people. These are people who you’ve criticized. Wherein lies your hope with this new transitional government?

A: We will do everything we can to support the Ukrainian people. And as I said in the press conference, we will support whatever president emerges from a democratic election. It’s clear….

http://ukraine.usembassy.gov/speeches/amb-ekho-moskvy.html

It is said by a few Ukrainians 1 lady in the New Gov. was actually let out of jail for corruption and is back in office. lol



So?
You copy and paste this as if it is some sort of insight. What is the US position?
What do YOU believe to be the US position and why?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: The referendum in Crimea
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 10:03 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 11:52 am
Posts: 11991
Location: Summerside
LostSole wrote:
Obama will recognize it if it comes out in his favor and if it does not it will be ignored as fixed.

The entire Western world had already said long prior to the vote that they wouldn't recognize the results of the referendum.

Regardless of what is happening in Ukraine, I'm not sure how anyone can agree with holding a referendum with one week's notice. And to have 97% in support? That's absurd. You couldn't get 97% of people to agree on anything much less an issue like this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The referendum in Crimea
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 11:02 pm 
Offline
True Islander

Joined: November 26th, 2006, 12:15 am
Posts: 3248
craiger wrote:
LostSole wrote:
Obama will recognize it if it comes out in his favor and if it does not it will be ignored as fixed.

The entire Western world had already said long prior to the vote that they wouldn't recognize the results of the referendum.

Regardless of what is happening in Ukraine, I'm not sure how anyone can agree with holding a referendum with one week's notice. And to have 97% in support? That's absurd. You couldn't get 97% of people to agree on anything much less an issue like this.

You forget there is 60% Russians in Crimea. They seem very happy.Why not a week after? They had scheduled a vote for the summer until the US ampted things up.Ukraine that is.

From the Kermlin
Quote:
Russia’s deputy prime minister laughed off President Obama’s sanction against him today asking “Comrade @BarackObama” if “some prankster” came up with the list.
Image :lol: :lol:

Gotta admit Putin is good.
Quote:
Putin has brilliantly out smarted the US and Europeans in a couple of days and has earned Russia more than 20 billion dollars and has also managed to get an extra 30% stake within the lucrative Russian energy sector

This is a story that the three monkeys at the BBC, CNN and Fox News will never tell you folks.

Yes Sir! Putin has financially screwed EU and America. In the eyes of the entire world he played this geo-political game without a hitch.

You see, some shares of Russian energy companies up until recently used to be owned by foreign investors predominantly Americans and Europeans, that’s before Putin gave the order to buy shares of these companies at their lowest. So in layman terms this now means that almost half of the revenues from the oil and gas industry will go into the coffers of Russia, and not into the accounts of “financial sharks” of Europe.

The story begins

This story starts with the current situation in Crimea, when the ruble started to fall sharply, and the Russian central bank did absolutely nothing to support it, of course rumours started that Russia simply did not have a reserve currency to maintain the ruble. These rumours along with Putin’s statement that he was ready and would protect the Russian-speaking population of Ukraine led to a large drop in the share price of energy companies in Russia, as expected the “financial sharks” began to sell their shares. And sure enough the great strategist Putin waited all week and just smiled at the various press conferences (trying not to give away his plan I bet) and when the price fell below the plinth he then ordered his officials into buying shares at rock bottom prices. Of course by the time the European and American investors realised that they had been duped it was too late, the stocks were already in the hands of the Russians. This brilliant operation has to be the first in stock market history PUTIN BRAVO!
http://newswire-24.com/2014/03/16/putins-2-move-checkmate-in-crimea/

Quote:
Sanctions, sanctions what sanctions?
In Russia’s case, the worst thing that will happen is that many Russian oligarchs will not be able to buy Penthouses in London, New York or Paris.

What will the Russian bear do?

Russia seems to be a rational country that wouldn’t do anything dramatic. They have always been in competition with the leading superpower for example France, Germany, and America. Russia has always been a strong country, the people are resistant and can tolerate hardship. But they will not wage war only when cornered, history states this. Napoleon and Hitler.
From the economic point of view, everyone should get ready for tough actions from Moscow. Sergei Glazyev, the most hardline of Putin’s advisors, has outlined the Kremlin’s retaliation strategy, firstly to drop the dollar, sell US Treasuries, tell the Russian firms to default on their American dollar debts, and seek to build an alternative currency system to replace Uncle Sam’s($) I OWE YOU’S with emerging economies of Brazil, Russia, India and China.
http://newswire-24.com/2014/03/17/sanctions-sanctions-what-sanctions/
Russia has already dumped a good portion of them already. Kinda make Obama look stupid.
Image
i couldn't resist. lol

_________________
“Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking...” Leo Tolstoy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The referendum in Crimea
PostPosted: April 17th, 2014, 8:05 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: April 12th, 2010, 7:29 am
Posts: 2240
[-X Another mistake, Mr. Harper. Don't get any deeper into this mess. It's none of our business.

If these 'mis-steps' continue I won't be able to vote for your party next election.

Ed

Canada sending jets to eastern Europe in response to Ukraine crisis
Andrea Janus, CTVNews.ca
Thursday, April 17, 2014

Canada is sending six CF-18 fighter jets to eastern Europe as part of a NATO operation in response to the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced the decision in Ottawa Thursday.

He said the jets are being sent “in response to a NATO request” as it expands its operations in eastern Europe.

“Obviously this in response to the situation that’s developing there,” Harper told reporters, particularly over concerns about the “expansionism and militarism” of Russian President Vladimir Putin in Ukraine.

As many as 20 Canadian Forces staff officers will be sent to NATO headquarters in Brussels as it ramps up its response to Russia’s incursion in eastern Ukraine.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-s ... -1.1780452

_________________
Searching for truth with an open mind is more rewarding than belief, which by definition is unquestioning.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group