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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 12:15 am 
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The law applies to everyone.

wingman wrote:
Actually the principal had no choice but to report it. If they, teachers, medical professionals, etc hear or suspect that a child's welfare is in jeopardy they have to notify Child Services and I wouldn't be surprised if it's the law that they have to report it.


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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 9:19 am 
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When I was nine I won first place in a safety poster contest that was canada and us wide, think it got second place down in the us. Anyway it was about gun safety and depicted two boys handling shotguns unsupervised as they had gotten into their fathers gun rack. I also owned a 4-10 shortly after that time, we had pellet guns by seven. I guess dear old dad should of been hauled off to jail for that, perhaps he still could be as there is no time limitations on these things. In grade nine we were able to take fire arm safety at high school. At any rate we were always supervised when shooting and firearms were always locked up otherwise. But we were certainly exposed to them and knew what the looked like and what they could do. It is disheartening though how stupid things get as time goes on.

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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 9:40 am 
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I have to wonder if any of these learned people gave any thought to the trauma they may have caused these people and especially the children by how they carried out their actions. I could think of no worse experience than my father being handcuffed and led from school into a police cruiser from my school, likely in front of all my friends and me most likely feeling it is my fault for drawing that picture. And then again at their home with the mother. The principal should be severely reprimanded if not fired. The father I hope is going to sue the stupid out of the school board. But what an idiot that principal is imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 10:49 am 
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betamaxman wrote:
When I was nine I won first place in a safety poster contest that was canada and us wide, think it got second place down in the us. Anyway it was about gun safety and depicted two boys handling shotguns unsupervised as they had gotten into their fathers gun rack. I also owned a 4-10 shortly after that time, we had pellet guns by seven. I guess dear old dad should of been hauled off to jail for that, perhaps he still could be as there is no time limitations on these things. In grade nine we were able to take fire arm safety at high school. At any rate we were always supervised when shooting and firearms were always locked up otherwise. But we were certainly exposed to them and knew what the looked like and what they could do. It is disheartening though how stupid things get as time goes on.

There is quite a difference between a nine year old and a four year old.

betamaxman wrote:
The principal should be severely reprimanded if not fired. The father I hope is going to sue the stupid out of the school board. But what an idiot that principal is imo.

The principal didn't make the decision to arrest him, haul him away in handcuffs, strip search him and search his house. Those were all police decisions. They are the ones who went overboard here, not the principal.


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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 10:57 am 
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Ex-racer wrote:

Neaveh, the child who made the drawing, also made comments about it that raised more flags.



Without knowing exactly what those comments were there is no way we can judge whether or not anyone over reacted.


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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 11:18 am 
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craiger wrote:
There is quite a difference between a nine year old and a four year old.

Regarding children and the law? You're kidding me, right?

craiger wrote:
The principal didn't make the decision to arrest him, haul him away in handcuffs, strip search him and search his house. Those were all police decisions. They are the ones who went overboard here, not the principal.

No but the principal seemed to be the one who called the time and place, and was the cause of the whole f'up in the first place. An over reacting drama man.

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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 11:23 am 
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Nomie wrote:
Ex-racer wrote:

Neaveh, the child who made the drawing, also made comments about it that raised more flags.



Without knowing exactly what those comments were there is no way we can judge whether or not anyone over reacted.

“That’s my daddy’s. He uses it to shoot bad guys and monsters”

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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 12:59 pm 
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betamaxman wrote:
craiger wrote:
There is quite a difference between a nine year old and a four year old.

Regarding children and the law? You're kidding me, right?

I'm not really sure what you're talking about but there is a huge difference between a nine year old and a four year when it comes to access or handling guns.

betamaxman wrote:
craiger wrote:
The principal didn't make the decision to arrest him, haul him away in handcuffs, strip search him and search his house. Those were all police decisions. They are the ones who went overboard here, not the principal.

No but the principal seemed to be the one who called the time and place, and was the cause of the whole f'up in the first place. An over reacting drama man.

So you think a principal shouldn't notify authorities when they believe a four year old child may have access to a gun at home? Are you OK with a four year old having access to a gun?


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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 3:08 pm 
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OK folks, let's back up and look at a couple of pertinent facts:-

a. The child didn't have access to a gun.
b. The parents were not negligent.
c. The parents were detained and their other children were removed from the home and questioned.


It would be very difficult for parents to prevent a child from seeing a gun in this day and age. The child could have seen other kids playing with toy guns, or have seen guns being used on TV.

She could have transferred the 'protector role' from a cop show personage to her real-life protector, her daddy.

If you have young kids in school it could happen to you any day. Don't people have enough to worry about without that?

Ed

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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 3:28 pm 
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craiger wrote:
So you think a principal shouldn't notify authorities when they believe a four year old child may have access to a gun at home? Are you OK with a four year old having access to a gun?



Define "access to a gun".

I have no problem with kids of any age having access to a gun. In fact the earlier the better. That is where the parents step in and teach the kids right from wrong and how to use a gun responsibly if they should encounter one.

I have had access to guns, both hand guns and long guns, since at least the age of 4.
I was taught from the get go how to use and respect them.

We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend guns don't exist or we could do the reponsible thing and teach children about the existence of guns and the difference between responsible and irresponsible use.


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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 4:58 pm 
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Raiders wrote:
craiger wrote:
So you think a principal shouldn't notify authorities when they believe a four year old child may have access to a gun at home? Are you OK with a four year old having access to a gun?



Define "access to a gun".

I have no problem with kids of any age having access to a gun. In fact the earlier the better. That is where the parents step in and teach the kids right from wrong and how to use a gun responsibly if they should encounter one.

I have had access to guns, both hand guns and long guns, since at least the age of 4.
I was taught from the get go how to use and respect them.

We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend guns don't exist or we could do the reponsible thing and teach children about the existence of guns and the difference between responsible and irresponsible use.


I recall, in the late '40s, before the nanny state took over, the older boys bringing their 22s to school (I was too poor to have one) and standing them in the 'cloakroom' so they could go tin can shooting on the way home after school.

We used to play cowboys and rustlers with our cap guns around the school at 'recess', and none of us turned into outlaws. :D

Ed

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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 6:19 pm 
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craiger wrote:
I'm not really sure what you're talking about but there is a huge difference between a nine year old and a four year when it comes to access or handling guns.
So you think a principal shouldn't notify authorities when they believe a four year old child may have access to a gun at home? Are you OK with a four year old having access to a gun?

You see, as stated, there is where your argument simply falls to pieces. And the reason the principal needs to grow up.

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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 8:31 pm 
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Ohio high school shooting leaves 1 dead
Suspect arrested nearly a kilometre away from the school
The Associated Press Posted: Feb 27, 2012 2:57 PM ET Last Updated: Feb 27, 2012 6:07 PM


Some people are responsible with guns, some aren't. It may have been screwed up in the way it was handled but this type of news story is probably the reason why more than any bureaucrat running wild.


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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 9:32 pm 
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I still believe the principal is mostly responsible for this getting out of hand.If he asked the kid if her father owned a gun she might have told them no.

Even if the father did own a gun ,this in itself is still not illegal.If he did own a gun and it was stored correctly,it would be perfectly safe.

I agree with Raider about gun safety.If there is a gun in a home eveyone in the home should know about it and know the safety of storeing it and/ or useing it to a degree.


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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 10:05 pm 
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alandla wrote:
Ohio high school shooting leaves 1 dead
Suspect arrested nearly a kilometre away from the school
The Associated Press Posted: Feb 27, 2012 2:57 PM ET Last Updated: Feb 27, 2012 6:07 PM


Some people are responsible with guns, some aren't. It may have been screwed up in the way it was handled but this type of news story is probably the reason why more than any bureaucrat running wild.

Totally irrelevant post to the topic of this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 10:09 pm 
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betamaxman wrote:
alandla wrote:
Ohio high school shooting leaves 1 dead
Suspect arrested nearly a kilometre away from the school
The Associated Press Posted: Feb 27, 2012 2:57 PM ET Last Updated: Feb 27, 2012 6:07 PM


Some people are responsible with guns, some aren't. It may have been screwed up in the way it was handled but this type of news story is probably the reason why more than any bureaucrat running wild.

Totally irrelevant post to this thread.


Ok.

Sorry for contributing. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 10:15 pm 
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Sorry that was a bit stiff wasn’t it? Late hour I guess. At any rate you might have a point at least about bureaucrats running wild not being the cause of the screw up. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 27th, 2012, 11:07 pm 
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betamaxman wrote:
Sorry that was a bit stiff wasn’t it? Late hour I guess. At any rate you might have a point at least about bureaucrats running wild not being the cause of the screw up. :D


:) no worries mate.

I think it's one of those rural/urban or older vs younger generational things where one group is familiar with guns in one way but another group has never seen them in any other way but violence (and probably more from tv than in reality) so they over react.

I don't think that it comes from mean spirit but rather ill informed.


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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 28th, 2012, 8:31 am 
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Raiders wrote:
craiger wrote:
So you think a principal shouldn't notify authorities when they believe a four year old child may have access to a gun at home? Are you OK with a four year old having access to a gun?



Define "access to a gun".

I would define that as the child being able to get the gun.

Raiders wrote:
I have no problem with kids of any age having access to a gun. In fact the earlier the better. That is where the parents step in and teach the kids right from wrong and how to use a gun responsibly if they should encounter one.

I have had access to guns, both hand guns and long guns, since at least the age of 4.
I was taught from the get go how to use and respect them.

We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend guns don't exist or we could do the reponsible thing and teach children about the existence of guns and the difference between responsible and irresponsible use.

I have no problems teaching kids about the existence of guns. However, personally, I don't believe a four year old should be handling a gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Bureaucrats run wild - - -
PostPosted: February 28th, 2012, 8:33 am 
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betamaxman wrote:
craiger wrote:
I'm not really sure what you're talking about but there is a huge difference between a nine year old and a four year when it comes to access or handling guns.
So you think a principal shouldn't notify authorities when they believe a four year old child may have access to a gun at home? Are you OK with a four year old having access to a gun?

You see, as stated, there is where your argument simply falls to pieces. And the reason the principal needs to grow up.

My argument doesn't fall to pieces at all. You may be comfortable with four year olds handling guns, but I'm not. If my children were in a class where a school mate was drawing pictures of guns and saying her daddy uses it to shoot bad guys, I'd expect the principal to notify authorities to look into it. Better to be safe than sorry. The principal was completely justified in his actions. He can't contral how police and child services are going to handle it after he notifies them.


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