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Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
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 Post subject: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 22nd, 2012, 9:23 pm 
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Almost an Islander

Joined: April 28th, 2011, 1:23 am
Posts: 481
Today makes me think it is getting harder and harder to deny global warming. It was 24 degrees celisus when i checked the temperature at around three o'clock this afternoon.

I heard the heating/cooling system come on at 7:00 P.M. I thought it must be cooling off and got up to close some windows. You guessed it, it was the air-conditioning. On March 22nd. In Prince Edward Island. And yes I know that one robin does not a spring make.

Maybe we should look at trying to get a piece of the peanut growing business.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011 ... rtage.html

With thanks to Armetis for the link.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 1:21 pm 
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Joined: June 3rd, 2007, 9:00 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Charlottetown
What a difference two years make. Here it is March 17,2014 the outside temperature is -14 degrees Centigrade with a windchill of -23.

Interesting view of Climate Change caused by CO2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Mx0_8YEtg

The Great Global Warming Swindle Full Movie

Very interesting


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 1:23 pm 
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True Islander

Joined: September 20th, 2011, 8:18 pm
Posts: 4181
Wonderful, a new (old) thread for people who don't have a clue of what the difference is between climate and weather.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 1:50 pm 
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Joined: October 20th, 2011, 12:15 pm
Posts: 1493
Climate Change and Global Warming are two completely different things.

Climate Change is the change in weather patterns over the life of the earth. This is what causes ice ages to come and go. This can be due to the earth tilt changing over time, volcano's, solar flares, el nino's etc.

Global Warming is the drastic change in weather patterns over the relatively (to the age of the earth) short period of time due to human pollution.

One year does not a pattern make. 20 years does not a pattern make. You have to look at centuries in order to have a proper discussion about the two terms.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 5:56 pm 
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Joined: June 3rd, 2007, 9:00 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Charlottetown
Before anymore rude comments watch the video. I found it very interesting and, in my opinion, does a good job of refuting the commonly held belief that CO2 is causing climate change.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 6:05 pm 
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Junior Member

Joined: June 3rd, 2007, 9:00 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Charlottetown
Raider said:
Quote:
Wonderful, a new (old) thread for people who don't have a clue of what the difference is between climate and weather.


I do know the difference between climate change and weather. I was simply reflecting on the previous poster who was talking about "global warming". I thought the referenced video was interesting and thought I would share it with the group. Your caustic comment, while a typical response from you, is ll not appreciated. [-X [-X


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 6:10 pm 
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True Islander

Joined: September 20th, 2011, 8:18 pm
Posts: 4181
I don't give a s#!t if you appreciate my comments or not. I will call out any idiotic comments on climate change from people too god damned stupid to understand science.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 8:00 pm 
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Junior Member

Joined: June 3rd, 2007, 9:00 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Charlottetown
Raider have you watched the video that I have referenced?

If you have, then please explain how the demonstrated non-correlation of CO2 with warming as laid-out in this video, is wrong? Explain how the miniscule amount of carbon that makes up the totality of green house gases in the upper atmosphere, can be responsible for global warming? The Scientists behind this video explain how there is a direct correlation between solar (sun) activity and global warming cycles. Are you smarter and more informed than these world renowned scientists? I doubt it.

You can call me names all you want but demonstrate your superior scientific knowledge by showing us the flaws in this video rather than attacking the messenger.

I can see why postings are way down on this site since Raiders joined the group. He is incapable of discussing anything in a polite and civil manner.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 8:41 pm 
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Joined: April 12th, 2010, 7:29 am
Posts: 2240
For anyone who would rather read a summary of the video - The Great Global Warming Swindle :-
http://summary4.blogspot.ca/2011/11/gre ... mmary.html

The International Climate Science Coalition (ICSC) is another source of information and critical views of the man-made climate change hypothesis.
http://www.climatescienceinternational.org/

Ed

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Searching for truth with an open mind is more rewarding than belief, which by definition is unquestioning.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 17th, 2014, 9:36 pm 
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True Islander

Joined: September 20th, 2011, 8:18 pm
Posts: 4181
Reggie The Shark wrote:
Raider have you watched the video that I have referenced?


Yes. I did.
I have also watched videos that deny the holocaust.
I have also watched videos that deny the moon landing.
I have also watched videos that claim 911 was a US Government conspiracy.

There are no shortage of garbage videos out there that waterheads will buy into. There will always be plenty of gullible sheep for these snake oil salesmen to fleece.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 18th, 2014, 9:15 am 
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Member

Joined: October 20th, 2011, 12:15 pm
Posts: 1493
Reggie The Shark wrote:
Before anymore rude comments watch the video. I found it very interesting and, in my opinion, does a good job of refuting the commonly held belief that CO2 is causing climate change.


CO2 affects global warming , not climate change.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 18th, 2014, 9:47 am 
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Joined: June 3rd, 2007, 9:00 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Charlottetown
Nomie

Wouldn't global warming also affect climate change? I think there is a cause and effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 18th, 2014, 9:50 am 
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Junior Member

Joined: June 3rd, 2007, 9:00 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Charlottetown
Raiders wrote:
Reggie The Shark wrote:
Raider have you watched the video that I have referenced?


Yes. I did.
I have also watched videos that deny the holocaust.
I have also watched videos that deny the moon landing.
I have also watched videos that claim 911 was a US Government conspiracy.

There are no shortage of garbage videos out there that waterheads will buy into. There will always be plenty of gullible sheep for these snake oil salesmen to fleece.


I am pleased that you watched the video.

So how have you concluded that this is a "garbage video"?
Explain to me how the statements made in the video, some of which I shared with you are wrong?

It is very simple to label something as garbage and do name calling, as you are prone to do, but please explain why you discount the views of these scientists as garbage?


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 18th, 2014, 11:20 am 
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Member

Joined: October 20th, 2011, 12:15 pm
Posts: 1493
Reggie The Shark wrote:
Nomie

Wouldn't global warming also affect climate change? I think there is a cause and effect.


Global Warming is to Climate Change as a Volcano is to Climate Change.

You wouldn't interchange the terms volcano and climate change. Too many people mistakenly interchange the terms global warming and climate change in this manner.

Global warming is short term cause. Climate change is a pattern of weather over the life span of the earth that can be altered by outside forces on a short term scale (or until that "effector" ceases to be a factor ie the volcano ash is no longer in the atmosphere). Global warming would affect that pattern, in the same manner a volcano would, but if you take global warming out of the equation the pattern would resume its normal course. Climate change is still following its normal pattern, just some portions of it (ie temperatures which have a cause/effect on other weather patterns) are elevated/changed beyond the normal pattern because of global warming. They are two separate things.

I should of properly said "CO2 is the cause of Global Warming, which is pushing the line of the pattern of Climate Change off its normal course". I was just using less words.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 18th, 2014, 9:19 pm 
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Joined: January 13th, 2014, 6:19 pm
Posts: 6
Reggie The Shark wrote:
Raider have you watched the video that I have referenced?

If you have, then please explain how the demonstrated non-correlation of CO2 with warming as laid-out in this video, is wrong? Explain how the miniscule amount of carbon that makes up the totality of green house gases in the upper atmosphere, can be responsible for global warming? The Scientists behind this video explain how there is a direct correlation between solar (sun) activity and global warming cycles. Are you smarter and more informed than these world renowned scientists? I doubt it.

You can call me names all you want but demonstrate your superior scientific knowledge by showing us the flaws in this video rather than attacking the messenger.

I can see why postings are way down on this site since Raiders joined the group. He is incapable of discussing anything in a polite and civil manner.


It can be tricky to respond to a full hour and fifteen minute video. I had a tough time finding exactly the demonstration of non-correlation you're talking about, and my best guess would be the graph and talking at 23min? If so the data there is best on Caillon et la.'s Timing of Atmospheric CO2 and Antarctic Temperature Changes Across Termination Ill paper published in 2003. It was kind of a big deal for a while before it was disproved in a more recent 2013 study, Parrenin et. al's Synchronous Change of Atmospheric CO2 and Antarctic Temperature During the Last Deglacial Warming. If you want the answers to your questions you can read that paper right here: http://sciences.blogs.liberation.fr/fil ... et-co2.pdf

Overall I think the misconception comes from focusing more on CO2 and less the overall effect that is compounded by multiple factors. No climatologist is against natural fluctuations in the Earth's atmosphere over centuries. What climate change proponents speak of today is how much our own heating and increase in the melting of the ice caps is quickening or adding onto this "natural" change. There are other considerations beyond atmosphere CO2 as well, including surface temperate and ocean acidity. If you're further skeptical you can read the IPCC's own 2013 report which has a lot to say on Climate Change. https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/
http://www.climatechange2013.org/report/review-drafts/

You seem quick to ask for other people's superior scientific knowledge. Here it is. I watched your hour long video, I think it only fair you take a crack at these papers. If you can read and debunk these papers I would be happy to be swayed by your own expertise on the subject.

edit: that said, the very basis of this thread doesn't aid one side or the other. One cannot look at a single day in comparison to the same day in some other time and come away with a conclusion on climate or climate change. On the topic of climate change proponents being too much about Doomsday, I'd propose reading this NYTs piece which comments on the IPCC report http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/scien ... html?_r=2&


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 19th, 2014, 7:31 am 
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Joined: October 20th, 2011, 12:15 pm
Posts: 1493
corcosian wrote:
What climate change proponents speak of today is how much our own heating and increase in the melting of the ice caps is quickening or adding onto this "natural" change.


Do you mean Global Warming proponents? The "natural" change is called Climate Change.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 19th, 2014, 8:22 pm 
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Joined: June 3rd, 2007, 9:00 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Charlottetown
Corcosian

Thank you for your well reasoned input into this topic. The paper you referenced is very interesting although, I must admit , was very difficult to follow, given my lack of mastery of the processes used to do what is obviously some very complex calculations based on numerous assumptions made on their part. To quote Daniel Botkin, who did a brief review of the paper http://www.danielbbotkin.com/2013/03/04/carbon-dioxide-and-temperature-who-has-led-whom/, he stated:
Quote:
The new paper just published in Science shows that much of the lag could be the result of a problem in analyzing the ice cores from Antarctic. (For those interested, the paper is: Parrenin, et. al., “Synchronous Change of Atmospheric CO2 and Antarctic Temperature During the Last Deglacial Warming,” Science, 2013. 339: p. 1060.) The chemistry is complicated, highly sophisticated, and indirect. You don’t just stick a thermometer into the ice core to determine what the atmospheric temperature was 800,000 years ago.

Who appears to have lagged whom depends on assumptions about the timing of carbon dioxide storage in air pockets in ice cores compared to the timing of factors used to reconstruct temperature. The new paper in Science presents new ways of analyzing those events, yielding results that greatly reduce the time gap between rising temperature and rising carbon dioxide. The lag could still be there but much shorter — perhaps only as long as 130 years. Or it might not exist at all.

The new Science paper is objective and open, and very careful, allowing for a variety of interpretations, even the previous much longer lags. This is the way that the entire discussion of climate change should be going on.


It would appear that the conclusions were far from definitive, and, requires further study. Consequently to conclude that climate change is the result of humans using fossil fuels, is clearly not conclusively proven.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 20th, 2014, 6:19 pm 
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Joined: January 13th, 2014, 6:19 pm
Posts: 6
Reggie The Shark wrote:
Corcosian

Thank you for your well reasoned input into this topic. The paper you referenced is very interesting although, I must admit , was very difficult to follow, given my lack of mastery of the processes used to do what is obviously some very complex calculations based on numerous assumptions made on their part. To quote Daniel Botkin, who did a brief review of the paper http://www.danielbbotkin.com/2013/03/04/carbon-dioxide-and-temperature-who-has-led-whom/, he stated:
Quote:
The new paper just published in Science shows that much of the lag could be the result of a problem in analyzing the ice cores from Antarctic. (For those interested, the paper is: Parrenin, et. al., “Synchronous Change of Atmospheric CO2 and Antarctic Temperature During the Last Deglacial Warming,” Science, 2013. 339: p. 1060.) The chemistry is complicated, highly sophisticated, and indirect. You don’t just stick a thermometer into the ice core to determine what the atmospheric temperature was 800,000 years ago.

Who appears to have lagged whom depends on assumptions about the timing of carbon dioxide storage in air pockets in ice cores compared to the timing of factors used to reconstruct temperature. The new paper in Science presents new ways of analyzing those events, yielding results that greatly reduce the time gap between rising temperature and rising carbon dioxide. The lag could still be there but much shorter — perhaps only as long as 130 years. Or it might not exist at all.

The new Science paper is objective and open, and very careful, allowing for a variety of interpretations, even the previous much longer lags. This is the way that the entire discussion of climate change should be going on.


It would appear that the conclusions were far from definitive, and, requires further study. Consequently to conclude that climate change is the result of humans using fossil fuels, is clearly not conclusively proven.


Well the conclusions were definitive in the sense that it wasn't what Caillon et la or what the video you posted were proposing. And to conclude that no climate change at all is happening because of humans use of fossil fuels is beyond the pale. There has been effect proven by the IPCC report I posted and by other institutions such as the American Association for the Advancement of Science http://whatweknow.aaas.org/wp-content/u ... e-Know.pdf The key difference is that these papers are a culmination of a lot of research, not just the voices of one or two experts.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 20th, 2014, 7:36 pm 
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Almost an Islander

Joined: June 19th, 2013, 10:43 am
Posts: 450
Location: Cyberian wilderness
Ex-racer wrote:
For anyone who would rather read a summary of the video - The Great Global Warming Swindle :-
http://summary4.blogspot.ca/2011/11/gre ... mmary.html

...
Ed

Among the errors in that article is this
Quote:
The man-made climate change hypothesis is based on the belief that carbon dioxide produced by the burning of fossil fuels during industrialization has caused the global temperature to rise by approximately 0.5 degrees Celsius since the mid-1800s. However, on a global scale, industrial production was still in its infancy in the early 1900s, being restricted to a few countries, and even these were hampered by war and economic depression.
The use of coal had already been going for a century at full steam before gas and diesel and this global warming trend has been building since the early 1700s with a short cooling in the early 1800s. It's a correlation only, but the spike over the last 40 years is geologically unprecedented.

From every source of information I've ever read or heard, there seems to be no discussion with science behind it to show whether a warming or cooling is either a bad thing or a good thing. Unless I can be convinced that a rising sea level is bad and thats not likely.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change (also known as Global Warming)
PostPosted: March 25th, 2014, 3:55 pm 
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Joined: December 31st, 2003, 2:57 am
Posts: 8487
That video (warming swindle) has been debunked widely and anyone who cares to check on these things knows better.

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